Include

[pugsly]

"i must say though... i think you'll find in places that do have sub-standards.. they dont confine these to inside the zoo walls. infact the animals would fare worse in the wild with all the pollution and development, most human live in substandards too. its a hard call. we can only try help them to help themselves.. than just put them down. all people need is education"

Exactly.

It frustrates me when people make all these calls on other countries about sub standards. Obviously its been the first trip overseas you have had. Australia has some of the highest standards in the world for many things, including Animal welfare.

This is not the case in HUNDREDS of countries, not just Thailand or SE Asia. I have been to Thailand a number of tmes and absolutely love it.

The animals who are in the care of people, are very well looked after in comparison to those that arent. This is often the case because they DEPEND on the animals for there livelihood. Go to Phuket or Bangkok and get a photo with an Iguana, there are hundreds of them there and I didnt see 1 that was underweight or looked the slightest bit stressed.

Same goes with the Elephants. The people there rely on them for a living. They raise them and they care for them, and as for the hook on a pole, its more like a stick, you have have no idea how tough elephant skin is.. I was lucky enough to ride one by myself for a while, there amazing, and the 'hook' is used for direction, it doesnt bother the elephant.

My biggest concern is the Snake skin industry. It has taken off thanks to the likes of celebrities caught with python skin bags and shoes, one think you notice over there, snake skin shoes, belts are EVERYWHERE, some even with the Cobra head on the tor of the shoe. That is disturbing. But it is the way of life over there, if we dont like it, don't go.

People need to have more of an open mind I think..