Cape York Jungles

[caustichumor]

viridis isn't that a north western python. Morelia Spilota Variageta? Darwin carpet.

[viridis]

No, It is a stand out animal from west of Cooktown.

I was posting her as an example to show people that have not spent much time on the Cape, the huge variation found in the Morelia from Cape York.

Cheers,

Nick

[SnakePower]

I am with you Nick, she's definitely a stand out example of a Cape Jungle!!

There just has to be sooo much confusion here...!!

I love how the people telling others whats what are the people with the least experience and the ones that really know are mainly just sitting back and enjoying all the rambling.

As Jungle_Freak and Nick have said there is a lot of colour variation within every locality as well as in every clutch. Colour alone is not enough to catagorise an animal to a particular locality.

Further to that, mixing locality breeding within a sub species, IS NOT cross breeding. It is simply mixing two different locality animals of the same species, usually to get a desired result. Nearly every major breeder in Australia has bred mixed locality jungles. This doesn't mean they don't have pure local specific lines as well!! Sometimes a Palmerston goes well with an Atherton, or a Tully with a Milla Milla etc.

Steve, your girl looks like a Cape York Jungle to me! If you chose to breed her to another locality jungle, then that is your choice and doesn't mean you are going to make hybrids. If you bred her to a Darwin, or a MD, or Diamond then sure that's hybrids. If you want to stay local specific with your girls, hang in there and I am sure you will find a male that is suitable when the time is right.

Also the animals on RDU look like Cape York jungles to me. In fact I sold a few last season that were very similar.

Here's a couple of different Capey's for you.... same clutch, pure Cape Jungles.






Cheers,
Zac.

[ponybug]

thanks zac, thats what i thought, she is a jungle, the same as breeding a prossy coastal to a brissy coastal, they are still a coastal,
i'd prefer to get a nice cape york male, i'm just sorry i didn't take you up on your offer last year, but i didn't have these 2 f/ms then, and i'm also careful who i get a male from,

very nice capeys, keep me in mind if you get any nice males this season............

[SnakePower]

Welcome Steve, yes mate, exactly the same as breeding a prossie to a brissy, both coastals, different localities.

Second pic is a male, but he's not going anywhere at the moment.

I should have some very nice ones again this season, I may even part with a male from last year, but I am waiting to see what comes out of the eggs this season first.

[ponybug]

i think he would go nice with my girls, thanks mate, just let me know how you go, i'd buy a yearling or hatchy from you anyday,

[DanN]

The coastal/jungle debate is obscured by the fact that the different forms are the same species.
We do however, usually associate jungles with the rainforest's of north Qld (to Cooktown in the north). Therefore, anything that is not found in rainforest is not a " " "jungle" " ".

I believe there is no such thing as a Cape York Jungle as carpet pythons are not found in "rainforests" north of Cooktown. To conclude, (in my opinion) all carpets found on CYP are coastals - if we are to give them a coastal/jungle/murray darling locality type.

Viridis - do you have an exact locality for that animal?

[wokka]

We've heard lots of opinion.is that all the difference is between jungles and coastals. If not what is the difference? Maybe Scale count or patterning??Can one of the wise old men unlock the secret?

[Colin]

Originally Posted by flinders

IMO fair dinkum jungles are 4-5 foot long.Athertons will grow in excess of 7 foot and so will cape yorks..

So are you saying that larger atherton jungles are not 'fair dinkum' jungles? I have a few atherton lines from different locales of the atherton tablelands. The larger ones (7 ft) come from the top of the atherton escarpment and the smaller ones (5 ft) from the side of the atherton escarpment in the ravines and rainforests. Both are 'athertons' and fair dinkum jungles.

Originally Posted by flinders

There was an adult male on RDU some time ago

If thats the one I'm thinking of, it was owned by Rex Stock and was damn fine animal too.

Originally Posted by flinders

I would have to say breeding different locals would make them hybrids.

Absolutely disagree with the above statement and totally agree with SnakePower below

Originally Posted by SnakePower

I Further to that, mixing locality breeding within a sub species, IS NOT cross breeding. It is simply mixing two different locality animals of the same species, usually to get a desired result. Nearly every major breeder in Australia has bred mixed locality jungles. This doesn't mean they don't have pure local specific lines as well!! Sometimes a Palmerston goes well with an Atherton, or a Tully with a Milla Milla etc..

Originally Posted by Jungle_Freak

instant experts are every where these days and getting younger and younger,

Roger that's hilarious and so true

[Jungleland]

Some nice examples of capeys on this thread, as been mentioned before capes like any other morelia sub-species can be highly variable. here's one from wenlock river, dead ringer to some tiger carpets from overseas collection
hope you like.

Joel

[caustichumor]

Wow, those are some outstanding animals snakepower. I would take that colouration over a black and gold version any-day. Beautiful.

[wokka]

Do you mean a Black and Gold Jungle or a Black and Gold Carpet??

[digdown2001]

Originally Posted by Colin

Absolutely disagree with the above statement and totally agree with SnakePower below

Hi,
Great points I think there is very little understanding of the perceived boundaries we as researchers,scientists,hobbyists, etc...set for these animals. There is still intense debate that rages to this day on what even defines a "species". In the past the Biological Species Concept was widely accepted, but that too was only after intense debate and nowadays we have DNA sequences to compound issues rather than solve them (well, sometimes anyway ).

Many people hate "hybridising", or crossing of one "species" to another. The same folk will accept the crossing of variants, ssp., colour forms, etc..... The fact remains, a species is only roughly defined as we see it at a given point in time (of course sp. are not static) and at best still a guess to this day. Personally, I'm trying to draw a line right now to breed locality forms as best I can, but it's a choice and who the hell am I to say that breeding one entity that is different in ANY form to another is the right or wrong thing to do. I can read a published species defintition that tells me I have a Morelia bredli, but is that animal as different to any other Morelia sp. as the paper suggests, or is it more of what we might believe to be a subspecies (ssp.) of the M.spilota complex as the group is best defined today. Next year a published and peer reviewed paper might suggest a different classification for the animals in question......in 10 years time the whole concept of the group as we once knew it may be totally different.

The best we have are the current "general" understandings of the classification system (not whether or not they are taxonomically considered correct, this is really irrellevant, as I hoped to point out) and it gives us as a group of hobbyists something to work with. Where you draw the line must surely be up to you, but I would always think, beware the wrath of those that still follow and believe in the static defintion of a species, let alone those that are messing with nucleac DNA (hope I said that right, LOL) and radical systematists! A classical taxonomist may only strangle you peacefully

Until I could understand the group further (and I'm so far from having knowledge on the group it's just not funny), the best I think I can do is stick to locality groups to keep some form of solid genetic variation within the all important captive population, which is I think the aim of most of the breeders here in Australia anyway. In Europe it seems to be a really big problem from what I've seen, and heard it's hard t find a pure lined animal from ANY locality nowadays....some of the lines may look awesome for sure, hence I guess, the argument...

Cheers,
Steve

[dazza74]

what ever it is i would love to own one .

[Pythons Rule]

ok this is my opinion a jungle has the neck pattern that continues down its neck and a coastal has a brocken pattern on its neck, ponybug your girl is a capie jungle you can tell with capies that they are by there bold cream or white patterns. stunning capie all the way. you've seen mine and mine are cape york carpets, with a broken neck pattern. as junglefreak said they all come in different patterns/colours/shades each snake is different. and what they are through there bloodline you can tell through a sertain feature that last bit is IMO.