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22-Feb-07, 11:11 AM
|  | Subscriber | | | |
My parent live on a farm at Captains Flat which is located around 50km south east of Canberra. Being high country, we get lots of highland copperheads around the erea.
On Saturday at around 1pm, my father was alarmed by our Jack Russell, who was barking frantically in the front yard. He went out to see what all the commotion was about to find she had a young copperhead bailed up. The copperhead was only around a foot long making it no older than a yearling. The snake was in a defensive posture before my dad managed to get her away from it.
He had no idea she'd been bitten until a couple of hours later when she began throwing up thick saliva, her lip was also very swollen. He phoned the vet who told him it was probably too late for antivenom treatment and if she could survive the next few hours she would more than likely pull through.
From there things got worse. she went into a state of parylisis and by Sunday night she was unconcious, breating heavily and couldn't close her eyes. We didn't think she'd make it through the night.
By Monday morning she was still battling along. My father had given her a vitamin C injection the previous night as recommended by the vet. She appeared to slowly recover and by the evening she was walking around but was still very weak.
Since then she has slowly improved and ate a full dinner last night for the first time since the bite. She is expected to make a full recovery now. I'm so relieved and also amazed. She is very lucky, I doubt she would have survived a bite from an adult specimen.
This is the first case I have ever heard of Copperhead envenomation so I thought i'd share the story. It goes to show, even the most docile of snakes WILL bite if they feel threatened.
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22-Feb-07, 11:30 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Dec-05 Location: Sydney Gender:  | | | |
Sounds like you got very lucky, to have such a small dog survive a snake bite. My grandparents (also on farms, my grandad's is also near Captains Flat by coincidence) have lost at least 4 dogs between them over the years, mainly from eastern browns.
I don't suppose the snake survived your father's shovel aswell, you left that detail out. That would make good news all around (well, sort of, not really for the dog, but close enough)
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22-Feb-07, 11:30 AM
| | Suspended | Join Date: May-06 Location: Somewhere in between the beach and the bush Age/Gender: 28 | | | |
good story and lucky dog. Around Captains Flat there are a few sorts of snakes that'll give the dog a good run for its money.
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22-Feb-07, 11:32 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: | | |
I'm so glad your dog pulled through. Must have been scary and quite heart-breaking witnessing that.
I have seen some pretty lively Copperheads just recently. The smaller ones are usually the more defensive. I probably wouldn't class them myself as the most docile elapid I've ever seen  |
22-Feb-07, 11:34 AM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: Sydney | | | |
It would more likely survive an adult bite, the younger the more potent the venom. Adults don't inject as much either I dont believe.
Very lucky dog!
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22-Feb-07, 12:19 PM
|  | Punk in Drublic Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Gold Coast Gender: | | | |
To my knowledge young venomous snakes don't have any control over their venom glands, when they strike they will give the recipient a full dose of their venom, where an adult will be able to control how much venom they inject, either a small amount or lethal dose, depending on how threatened the snake is.
I have only heard this through the traps, but if its true makes you think twice about going near a nippy hatchling if you don't know what your doing.
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22-Feb-07, 12:21 PM
| | Subscriber | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas  good story and lucky dog. Around Captains Flat there are a few sorts of snakes that'll give the dog a good run for its money. |
Yeah we've only ever seen copperheads on out property there though. The neighbours nearby who live on lower ground seem to get browns and red bellies but we haven't seen em there.
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22-Feb-07, 12:27 PM
|  | slimin about! Subscriber | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Cairns | | | |
Will the dog be able to stand a higher dosage of venom now that it has had a sub-lethal dose?
I know it's not really up to you to test it (but if it accidentally occurs) it would be very interesting to know if your dog can withstand a larger envenomation from a copperhead.
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22-Feb-07, 12:31 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Dec-05 Location: Sydney Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by slim6y Will the dog be able to stand a higher dosage of venom now that it has had a sub-lethal dose?
I know it's not really up to you to test it (but if it accidentally occurs) it would be very interesting to know if your dog can withstand a larger envenomation from a copperhead. | How are you going to tell how much of a dose it got this time or whether it gets more next time.
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\"The less a man makes declared his statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect\"
Quentin Tarentino, Four Rooms
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22-Feb-07, 12:32 PM
| | Subscriber | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by slim6y Will the dog be able to stand a higher dosage of venom now that it has had a sub-lethal dose?
I know it's not really up to you to test it (but if it accidentally occurs) it would be very interesting to know if your dog can withstand a larger envenomation from a copperhead. |
Possibly, although i really hope she doesn't get bitten again, it was heartbreaking thinking she was gonna die. Being a Jack Russell though i'm sure she'd bail up another one if it came into the yard....she won't learn
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22-Feb-07, 01:23 PM
| | slimin about! Subscriber | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Cairns | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennie How are you going to tell how much of a dose it got this time or whether it gets more next time. | I don't think it's a matter of dosage... I guess I'm not after the mg of venom but more the fact as others had stated, a smaller copperhead may infact envenomate to the fullest capacity where an adult may in fact put inless depending on situations.
So if the dog had in fact recieved a full dose (as possible) and that proved sublethal... will the next dose it gets be easier to recover from and so on...
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22-Feb-07, 01:51 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Dec-05 Location: Sydney Gender: | | | |
But you'd never know conclusively because:
1. if it is bitten again by another and survives, it could've been a dry bite/much lower dosage.
2. if it is bitten again by another and dies, it could've been a much higher dosage.
It would have to be a controlled experiment with measured dosages.
Sorry ando, I seriously hope it doesn't get bitten again, these are just hypotheticals.
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\"The less a man makes declared his statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect\"
Quentin Tarentino, Four Rooms
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22-Feb-07, 02:19 PM
| | Subscriber | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennie But you'd never know conclusively because:
1. if it is bitten again by another and survives, it could've been a dry bite/much lower dosage.
2. if it is bitten again by another and dies, it could've been a much higher dosage.
It would have to be a controlled experiment with measured dosages.
Sorry ando, I seriously hope it doesn't get bitten again, these are just hypotheticals. | Hey it's all good! What you say makes perfect sense! There's no telling wehther it only got a couple of drops or a heavy dose.
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22-Feb-07, 09:12 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Sep-06 Location: moorabool shire. vic Gender: | | | |
In general copperheads are less likely to use their venom as compared to say a brown or a tiger. But Their venom if used to its full potential is more than capable of killing animals as big as horses but generally copperheads are very reluctant to bite.
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