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28-Feb-07, 12:30 AM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: Syd Gender:  | | |
Can anyone tell me if the 'Darwin Carpet python' & the 'Irian Jaya python'
are the same ?
I keep seeing Irian Jaya's on U.S & U.K Herp sites & they look just like Darwin's to me .
cheers. |
28-Feb-07, 12:34 AM
|  | Has Happy Herps.... Sponsor | Join Date: Aug-03 Location: SYDNEY | | | | Same species, different locality. Like GTPs, you can get them from here, merauke, aru islands and other localities, but pretty much all the same snake. In laymens terms anyway.
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Last edited by Hix; 28-Feb-07 at 06:46 AM.
Reason: typo
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28-Feb-07, 12:42 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: Syd Gender: | | | | Thanks Hugsta , mystery solved . |
28-Feb-07, 06:35 PM
|  | Regular Member | | | | | Though very similar visually they are not the same snake. DNA testing has shown them to actually be closer to jungles than to Darwins. They will likley be reclassied in the future as a full species. There is a very strong resemblance however.
There are also three seperate populations of carpet python on New Guinea, though the ones in the pet trade over here are all from only one population.
I keep and breed the Irian Jaya carpets but would still love the chance to work with Darwins, I guess I could import some albinos from Europe as they seem to have officially become available there, to no surprise.
Nick |
28-Feb-07, 06:36 PM
|  | Invert nut Subscriber | Join Date: Oct-05 Location: QLD Gender: | | | | there was just a thread on this the other day, i'll try and find it
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..........Proud member of the coastal carpet lovers club..........
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28-Feb-07, 06:38 PM
| | Invert nut Subscriber | Join Date: Oct-05 Location: QLD Gender: | | | |
__________________
R.I.P. Dimebag 1966-2004
..........Proud member of the coastal carpet lovers club..........
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28-Feb-07, 07:43 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Apr-03 Location: Brisbane | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by NickM  Though very similar visually they are not the same snake. DNA testing has shown them to actually be closer to jungles than to Darwins. They will likley be reclassied in the future as a full species.
Nick | Lol Nick,
Over here they cant tell dna difference between a jungle and a darwin!!!!! - are you sure of your facts?
Cheers
Adam |
28-Feb-07, 07:55 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Dec-04 Location: Somewhere near Brisbane | | | That is very interesting Nick, over here most people including myself assume Irian Jaya's are pretty much one in the same and given their geographic proximity it seems to make sense.
Is there anywhere the DNA work can be accessed on the net ? Most of the 'species' here have been shown to be more or less one species so it would be interesting to see how close or not the IJ carpets are. Quote:
Originally Posted by NickM Though very similar visually they are not the same snake. DNA testing has shown them to actually be closer to jungles than to Darwins. They will likley be reclassied in the future as a full species. There is a very strong resemblance however.
There are also three seperate populations of carpet python on New Guinea, though the ones in the pet trade over here are all from only one population.
I keep and breed the Irian Jaya carpets but would still love the chance to work with Darwins, I guess I could import some albinos from Europe as they seem to have officially become available there, to no surprise.
Nick |
__________________
"If you know everything you may as well blow your brains out because the reason for existence is to learn more everyday." - Mark O'Shea, 2004
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01-Mar-07, 06:00 AM
| | Regular Member | | | | | From what I understand there are genetic differences between the Aussie carpets, they are just quite small and may not be sufficient to identify the various forms as seperate taxons.
There have been a few DNA studies done though I am not sure if that particular study was published.
The entire concept of using DNA data in classification is new and there seems to be no clear cut rules for how to use that information and how much emphasis to give it. Historically it has always been done of the basis of morphology and geography.
I talked to Weigal at some length about DNA tesiting in 2005 when I visited Australia. He said the results showed only small variations genetically for all the top end and eastern forms. He also said that both Bredli and Imbricata were genetically very distinct.
Also of interest was that Carinata was much more closley related to Viridis than to Spilota.
Nick |
01-Mar-07, 09:59 AM
| | Has Happy Herps.... Sponsor | Join Date: Aug-03 Location: SYDNEY | | | | At this stage, out here, it appears that if you gave a DNA sample of a variegata and mcdowelli, the DNA testing would not be able to tell the difference between the two species. Of course you can visually, but genetically they appear the same.
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01-Mar-07, 10:05 AM
| | Moderator Moderator | Join Date: Jun-03 Location: Sydney, NSW,Australia | | | | Natrix,
They have the same scientific name as they have enough similarities to be classed the same subspecies, visually the IJ's are different to the Darwins, but as others have stated they may well be the same on a DNA level, not 100% sure if the IJ carpet was included in Donnellan et al's research paper though, so you might find that it could well be different, just not enough work has been done on the complex to date.
Neil |
01-Mar-07, 10:14 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Dec-04 Location: Somewhere near Brisbane | | | Yes that is my understanding, you only have to look at mcdowelli to see the enormous visual variation of the same subspecies. What we have to remember is that it is man who has split these animals based mainly on visual factors and size both of which vary enormously. I have seen coastals you would swear were Jungles and vice versa and Darwins you would swear were Jungles.
Bredli is no surprise and I suppose neither is imbricata given it's relative isolation. Quote:
Originally Posted by NickM From what I understand there are genetic differences between the Aussie carpets, they are just quite small and may not be sufficient to identify the various forms as seperate taxons.
There have been a few DNA studies done though I am not sure if that particular study was published.
The entire concept of using DNA data in classification is new and there seems to be no clear cut rules for how to use that information and how much emphasis to give it. Historically it has always been done of the basis of morphology and geography.
I talked to Weigal at some length about DNA tesiting in 2005 when I visited Australia. He said the results showed only small variations genetically for all the top end and eastern forms. He also said that both Bredli and Imbricata were genetically very distinct.
Also of interest was that Carinata was much more closley related to Viridis than to Spilota.
Nick |
__________________
"If you know everything you may as well blow your brains out because the reason for existence is to learn more everyday." - Mark O'Shea, 2004
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