ENDANGERED - Grey Snake ( Hemiaspis damelii )

[Moclobe]

Originally Posted by C'baoth

The Grey snake is a mostly harmless Elapid that is native to my area & is on the endangered list . So I'm very keen to do my bit & in a worst case scenario at least have them safe in a private collection . Can anyone help me out in aquiring a couple of these little fellas before it's too late .

Instead of trying to put the snake in a cage why don't you take the money you would spend on a pair and donate it to the land care group in your area to preserve its habitat. Or better lobby your state government to stop destroying the snakes habitat

Regards David

[C'baoth]

Because that's simply just not what i had in mind .

[mciver]

(moclobe) David,

It's all been debated before on this site. Land management vs. Captive breeding.
By the time something (a species) gets to the point in question, all the lobbying has usually fallen on deaf ears, or ineffective measures have been implemented. The dollars you refer to wouldn't even pay the annual rates on a smallholding, let alone a large tract of land.
Put simply it would be too little, too late.
I believe what "cboath" is saying is perhaps unorthodox from a purist legislative point of view, but while the debate continues the species may well vanish.
Rule bending, blind eyes, discretion and denial are common tools in the government ****nal, I can't see why a concerned citizen can't use some of the same and pitch in as a volunteer to help out (a species) in a case like this.
I don't for a minute advocate that any interested person or group to go out and create a species rescue program of their own because it seems a good idea at the time or does so with insufficient resources, abilities or fore knowledge.
However when it is obvious that the criteria for extinction are being met while the powers to be sit on their hands, then maybe it's time to look at alternatives.
Before anyone cites the Wolemi Pine as an example of govt action, just remember it was coming BACK from the dead. That issue is far more vote worthy than the preservation of a slimy, poisonous, little, dowdy looking snake heading for evolutionary scrap bin.
Given the number of species that have vanished from our shores alone; in the last 200 odd years, I think there will be snow on the roof of "Casa del Satan" before any govt of ours listens to anyone about the plight of a snake!
Our northern neighbours are good for $60 bill in govt charity, and don't bother to say thanks, yet our own hospitals buckle under the pressure of govt inaction.
Does anyone think the snake's got a chance? Five'll get you ten it hasn't!

Best regards
Paul

[Moclobe]

Well with an attitude like that then I don't see the situation changing in a hurry. Maybe if we all got off our collective fat backsides and did what we could at a local level for the environment rather than sitting back and saying "it all too hard the pollies wont do anything cry sob sob", things might change.

Regards David

[Moclobe]

Originally Posted by C'baoth

:shock: Because that's simply just not what i had in mind .

Thats fine. If you want to have a grey snake in your collection and you get it from a legal captive source go for it. But dont wrap it up in an environmental plea to save the species when there are much better routes you can take for that.

Regards David

[cris]

Ok so keeping a species in captivity so ppl can learn alot more about it relatively quickly isnt a good idea?

David i dont quite get where you are coming from

I dont think anyone here is against looking after native animal habitats, but not everyone can afford to go out and buy large portions of land and set them aside for conservation.
I think its prety cheap to accuse someone of not being genuine when it would appear you dont even know them(I dont either).

I would be interested to know what action you have taken to save threatend native species apart from grubbing others.

[cris]

Or better lobby your state government to stop destroying the snakes habitat

we live in Qld that would be a complete waste of time

[Macca]

I personally think the snake has a chance, I don't think it is going to disappear. In Queensland, it is listed as endangered, and this is largely an artefact of it distribution in queensland. Although it covers a wide-range, this is largely through cleared areas, including through the Brigalow Belt. To my knowledge, this species isn't declining, rather there is insufficient habitat protection, hence its listing. In NSW, it is not threatened at all and is very common in some areas. Nationally it doesn't receive any listing due to the fact it isn't nationally threatened.

As Moclobe indicated, in this situation, the only thing that could benefit the species would be the prevention of further clearing through their habitat. However, as mciver pointed out this is probably going to fall on deaf ears, largely because this species isn't threatened nationally.

In NSW, a number of species including the fat-tailed gecko (Diplodactylus conspicillatus), the centralian blue-tongue (Tiliqua multifasciata) and the woma are listed as Vulnerable. Is that because these species are declining....hardly, they are very common in other states including the NT. Rather, they haven't got large populations in NSW because the habitat isn't suitable in NSW.

Saying that, I definitely support your intentions C'baoth in wanting to do what you can for a threatened species, a lot of Australia's animals need it. However, I don't think this species is one that requires a captive program. You never know, write an apllication to the Queensland parks service and see what they say.

[Moclobe]

Originally Posted by cris

Ok so keeping a species in captivity so ppl can learn alot more about it relatively quickly isnt a good idea?

David i dont quite get where you are coming from

I dont think anyone here is against looking after native animal habitats, but not everyone can afford to go out and buy large portions of land and set them aside for conservation.
I think its prety cheap to accuse someone of not being genuine when it would appear you dont even know them(I dont either).

I would be interested to know what action you have taken to save threatend native species apart from grubbing others.

No keeping a species in captivity to learn about it is a great idea. But it is only useful if the information is published so it can be used by all.

Where have I said that he has to go out and by large tracts of land to preserve habitat. I agree there are very few that can afford to do this on their own. I only know of two people that have been in a position to by land for habitat preservation.

There are numerous organisations that are set up to purchase land for this purpose so while his small donation will not buy the land required, when combined with all the other donations.

There are also many volunteer organisation that we can participate in that work at preserving habitat.

So what I am getting at is that there are much more constructive things we can do to preserve the species than stick it in a cage. As I said before if he wants them in his collection fine but do use their endangered status as an excuse.

Regards
David

[C'baoth]

Well David how about you go & do those more constructive things you're talking about , all you're doing is talking . But thanx for keeping the thread alive , your skills have been utilized here in a positive way to help my cause . I'm actually more interested in people that can help not debate , this is not a poll .

[snakegal]

I think David has some good ideas/opinions...and who says that all he is doing is talking? Maybe he is doing something - I don't think we really have the right to assume he's not.

I also see where you are coming from - it's always hard with endangered species. Only once research has been done and the pros and cons evaluated can we decide what is best.

Having captive individuals is good, for the day may come that there is enough habitat for them to survive in the wild without intervention.

[C'baoth]

You're right . David may very well be a hippy :-)

Look , I'm just not interested in debating my intensions , I have a plan & starting this forum is one of the ways I'm putting it into motion . If someone has a better idea that's fine . I'm just not interested in hearing about it in this forum .

I can't see how anyone could possibly read bad intensions out of what I'm trying to do . I just want to preserve a little piece of Brisbane in my own way . I don't care if people agree with me i just want to know if they can help .

[Nagraj]

Originally Posted by Moclobe

Instead of trying to put the snake in a cage why don't you take the money you would spend on a pair and donate it to the land care group in your area to preserve its habitat. Or better lobby your state government to stop destroying the snakes habitat

I support your idea and try to promote it wherever I can David. Unfortunately that sort of concept is not something that is automatically arrived at and most people tend only to see how a situation can be used for their own personal advantage. We have a lot of evolving yet to do.

[Moclobe]

Originally Posted by C'baoth

You're right . David may very well be a hippy :-)

Look , I'm just not interested in debating my intensions , I have a plan & starting this forum is one of the ways I'm putting it into motion . If someone has a better idea that's fine . I'm just not interested in hearing about it in this forum .

I can't see how anyone could possibly read bad intensions out of what I'm trying to do . I just want to preserve a little piece of Brisbane in my own way . I don't care if people agree with me i just want to know if they can help .

I was trying to help you by showing you there are better ways to preserve the species. Again I have no objections to you owning the Grey snake, but don't try and make it into anything else but the desire to own the species.

You having the species in captivity will not add anything to the species survival unless you are part of a much larger regional effort to preserve the species. Given that the world zoos have had little success in this area a few amature herptologist isn't going to make a difference.

If however you were to spend some of your precious time going out and helping to eradicate weeds, plant indigenous plants etc, then you will make a difference. If this make you a hippy so be it, better that than be an ignorant red neck :wink:

Regards David