free handling elapids

[salebrosus]

Originally Posted by AustHerps

Despite this thread being quite old I guess a reply to the original post isn't out of order...

Pythons and elapids are very different animals, and it's more than venom glands that separate the two. They move differently, hold differently, ride hooks differently, respond to tailing differently, climb differently, possess different muscular structures, and, to hazard a guess - I'd say they think differently too.

To completely 'trust' a snake is somewhat foolish. But to 'know' a snake, I think, is possible. Each individual is exactly just that - Individual. It's not hard to see they have good days and bad days - Some days they'll be active, others they'll barely move, some days they'll leap on their prey as if they'd not had a meal in 3 months, and then other times they'll nonchalantly mosey over to their prey and proceed without any real effort. To 'trust' that a snake is having one of it's 'good' days is foolish, but to observe and make a judgement call is not. One might know his best friend like the back of his hand - but he can never truly know what mood they'll be in when he sees them. Just like the 'opposites' previously mentioned - On one day, a snake may hang from it's holders hand without a care in the world, and on the next, it might decide that the owner poses a threat (and come flying up at his face like there's no tomorrow. To 'Miss_Croft' - either you're having us on, or you're an idiot.)

As Scott mentioned, there are many factors and variables to take into account when assessing the risks of freehandling. I have a few critters which I would generally class as 'handleable' - but that doesn't mean I reach into their enclosures and rip them out at a million miles an hour without first making a few educated predictions as to what responses are to follow. I also have a few vens that I generally class as somewhat 'unstable' - but they too have their better days and, what can I say - I'm a hands-on kind of keeper.


Cheers,
Aaron.

Miss_Croft is in New York and as you know, the myths about snakes here are crap and that crap probably gets poured out to other herpers overseas.

The amount of times people tell me, "hold it by the tail it can't come back on you" i just nod and get yeah ok. I told John Cann i had doen the relocation course with WIRES for venomous snakes etc. John Cann told me never to tail the animal, if i can do it without having to touch the animal then do it that way. He then got me to promise him never to handle browns which i have never done. Watching him at past shows, i can only admire the guy.

I would love to free-handle elapids but just dont have the nerve/experience/knowledge to attempt it. Knowing my luck i would come a gutser.

Aaron, i couldnt agree with you more.

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue

Miss Croft, i dont know where you got the info that by tailing an elapid it cant stike at you,??????, cause its a complete load of rubbish. They can strike at you from there, or crawl up their body to grab you no worries, and in very little time.

Ive been silly enough to free handle elapids in my younger days, both taipans, copperheads, tigers, collets, spotted blacks, adders, muglas, rbb, etc. I even raised an eastern brown snake that you could do absolutely anything with, a member of this site ended up with it and used to do the same, ah Brian. lol.
Even had a couple of free handlable roughies. And yes i trusted alot of them more than most pythons.
Ive had tigers and copperheads from the same clutches that id bred and raised, where some you could do anything with yet others you could hardly walk past their tank with out them having a go.
The trick is to know your animals well enough, but in saying that as i said it was in my young silly days, i donot do it any more, as sooner or later something is bound to happen, law of averages.

Obviously she hasn't heard some of the snake catching stories where a brown has gone over the shoulder of the snakeman catching it

[Greebo]

Last time I checked, New York was not in Victoria.

"220-253-46-90.VIC.netspace.net.au."

[Australis]

Originally Posted by Greebo

Last time I checked, New York was not in Victoria.

"220-253-46-90.VIC.netspace.net.au."

LOL!
Kinda near Mexico though....

[Pandora]

Even the most experienced handler has and will be bitten.

For goodness sakes, use your commonsense. Failing that, make sure you are at least close to a hospital or know where one is that carries the required antivenine. Always have the necessary medical kit with you at all times when in such a situation that warrants coming in such close contact with an elapid.

Above all Be careful. These epalids or pythons for that matter are not toys. They should always be treated with respect, no matter how well you think you know the animal or how much experience you think you have.

[notechistiger]

One of my friends owns stacks of venomous snakes, but the only ones he ever free handles are his broad-headeds, pale-headeds and a red belly that he's had for eleven years that was one of his first venomous snakes.

I know that some people overseas don't understand that Australia has fast moving, slow striking snakes (compared to America's slow moving, fast striking snakes, eg. a rattlesnake), not to say that a strike is slow, but a rattlesnake certainly has something on a red belly. ANYWAY, I understand that this is what some people believe, but to think that a snake can't come back on itself and get you, if it really wants to, is ludicrous. If a snake wants you, it's got you.

[eipper]

Notechis,

There are plenty of fast striking Australian elapids.....Just how many upset Taipans or adders have you played with.

I have very limited exp with Crotalids, however the difference in their stirke speed between them and certainly some of Australian species is barely different. And to state that we have slow striking species as a broad comparsion to North American species is a dangerous assumption to make.

Cheers,
Scott

[redbellybite]

well depends on the venomous snake ................toxicity level wether i would free handle or not ...........as far as they dont get as snappy as pythons mmmmmmmmmmm I beg to differ.....RBB

[Tatelina]

Originally Posted by Pandora

They should always be treated with respect, no matter how well you think you know the animal or how much experience you think you have.

Quoted for emphasis.

[snakes4me2]

Originally Posted by Bushfire

Ive found newer keepers to be generally safer than older ones. They tend to be more cautious and more alert and then as they get experienced they become more relaxed and drop their guard.

I also agree with this, It not only applies to handling snakes but it applies to nearly everything you do when injury could occur.

If fitted tyres for a couple of years and that was the first thing i was told, and heard a few stories which made sure i didnt lose my gaurd.

[elapid@]

I dont know any one that owns elapids that hasn't free handled one before.

cheers steve.

[Szepp]

As Steve Irwin said when handling a black mamba in Africa while sweating bullets :- this is a top predator on a par with a lion or great white in its niche.

So free handling a dangerous elapid is like free handling a tiger or great white shark, you can study their behavior and know them personally to reduce the risk but if they take a funny turn you are potentially dead or debilitated. If you survive a bite, i imagine you will loose your pets and license, however you can read the newspaper after the coma and see "local man rushed to hospital after pet devil snake attack" hehe

[redbellybite]

CROFT 20 METERS AWAY AND IT SAW YOU ....................................LMFAO omg any young novis people on here dont take notice please you will be bitten all snakes can and will bite if they choose too...... venomous come in ranges of a slight headache felt by humans to death ..............geez no bloody wonder you get heros like G I GEORGE the snake man if that is what people are telling others you can swim with great whites dont mean that you will get eaten then and there but the possibillities are great ..swim with crocs too same thing handling venomous snakes is alot of skill and COMMONSENSE but even the best get bit or even worse killed ,RBB may be a more placid snake but they will bite you and you wont be having a picnic the bite from what i have been told is a very knock you on your **** bite..and to comment about the browns like your handling a gts is just plain crazy .........DONT HANDLE VENONMOUS SNAKES UNLESS YOU HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE and know alot about the snake your handling at the time, especially if its a snake thats bite can put you in a morgue....................RBB

[dpeica]

We have girlfriends and mothers to worry about free handling already. Don't need internet experts added to the list.

If it doesn't affect you keep quiet.

[Miss_Croft]

RBB – I agree 100% with you – NEVER handle a venomous snake unless you have had experience. What the original question was about hearing venomous snakes are easier to handle than most pythons.

Handling venomous snakes (Under 6 feet) is different than handling pythons – venomous snakes (if handled correctly) will not be able to strike you if handled correctly – where as a python will turn and bite – unless you hold their head.

For those of you who comment on New York – I grew up in Country Victoria. Saw and caught many snakes. The Easter Common Brown that was striking at about 20 meters (Very aggressive snake) was caught by hand (No tongs, not hooks – just bare hands) and released about 100 yards away (Away from the houses) by a registered snake catcher (Owner of the house where the snake was found). Just for the record he had never head of snake hooks or snake tongs. He would just bend down and pick up the snake, place it in a bag.

If you are not experienced – if you see a snake you should turn and walk the other way – a snake will never chase you and do not have a vendetta against you (shakes with vendetta’s are from story books).