free handling elapids

[Jonno from ERD]

Miss_Croft,

I was planning on staying out of this thread as it is fairly pointless, but the advice you are giving is downright dangerous and I would like to see it editted out.

Any venomous snake in Australia is more than capable of coming back over itself very quickly. Your comment that they aren't highlights your inexperience with venomous snakes and I recommend very strongly that you keep your opinions to yourself, as they could very well contribute to someone getting bitten, especially young impressionable herpers. About 18 months ago a 17 year old herper in Queensland received a life-threatening bite from a Rough Scaled Snake because he thought he knew how to handle them...

[Tatelina]

Originally Posted by Jonno from ERD

Miss_Croft,

I was planning on staying out of this thread as it is fairly pointless, but the advice you are giving is downright dangerous and I would like to see it editted out.

Any venomous snake in Australia is more than capable of coming back over itself very quickly. Your comment that they aren't highlights your inexperience with venomous snakes and I recommend very strongly that you keep your opinions to yourself, as they could very well contribute to someone getting bitten, especially young impressionable herpers. About 18 months ago a 17 year old herper in Queensland received a life-threatening bite from a Rough Scaled Snake because he thought he knew how to handle them...

Your response is much nicer compared to mine....so I'll just quote you.

Edit: I will add though: I'm confused as to why Miss_Croft says she grew up in Victoria, is now located in New York, and IP address now is in Victoria..? But doesn't really matter.

[stusnake]

Originally Posted by Jonno from ERD

Miss_Croft,

I was planning on staying out of this thread as it is fairly pointless, but the advice you are giving is downright dangerous and I would like to see it editted out.

Any venomous snake in Australia is more than capable of coming back over itself very quickly. Your comment that they aren't highlights your inexperience with venomous snakes and I recommend very strongly that you keep your opinions to yourself, as they could very well contribute to someone getting bitten, especially young impressionable herpers. About 18 months ago a 17 year old herper in Queensland received a life-threatening bite from a Rough Scaled Snake because he thought he knew how to handle them...

Couldnt agree more, I know everyone has an opinion, but some people especially youngsters using this site will take the info they see seriously, We need to make sure that we are not leading people up the the wrong path. Venomous snakes diserve the up most respect, and experience is an absolute must. The old saying " you must learn to walk before you can run" really says it all. Snake handling as my profession I have had many keen young keepers starting out wanting to dive straight into handling browns and taipans, and get a chip on their shoulder when I hold them back. Confidence is great, but I firmly believe experience is far more important - too much confidence and too litttle experience will lead to a bite in my books.

[TrueBlue]

Miss Croft,- once again youve out done yourself with a whole lot of rubbish, didnt think it was possible but you have.!!!!.
Our vens are far more capable of of turning around and biting you than any of our pythons when being handled.
You really must stop talking about things that you obviously know absolutely nothing about.

[Miss B]

I'm pretty sure that if you are accessing the website from New York, your IP address will not show up as Victoria, Australia

[stusnake]

This is from an article from the Daily Telegraph yesterday, A very real insite into the dangers of not only free handling but handling in general:

DOCTORS are working to save the life of a man bitten twice by his pet brown snake.

The 48-year-old man from Heddon Greta in the Hunter Valley was bitten on the right hand and forearm this afternoon by one of the world's deadliest reptiles which he kept as a pet.

He is in a critical condition in the John Hunter Hospital after being rushed there by the Westpac Rescue helicopter.

The man was taken into surgery, where he was given antivenom in a desperate bid to stop the spread of the snakes' poison throughout his body.

A helicopter paramedic who travelled with the critically-ill man from his home to the hospital said the snake bit the man "fair and square".

"He's been bitten twice by the eastern brown snake on the right hand and on his forearm," the paramedic said.

It is believed the adult brown snake, the second deadliest snake in the world and which can grow up to 2m in length, was kept in a glass tank at the man's rural property.

Sometime shortly before 3pm, the man was attending to the snake, when it reared up and bit him twice.

A snake expert from the Australian Reptile Park on the Central Coast said Eastern brown snakes are responsible for most deaths caused by snake bites.

In January last year, a 16-year-old boy died from being bitten on the hand by the same type of snake as he wandered through bushland at Whalan in Sydney's west.

The teenager stumbled out of the bush to get help, and collapsed unconscious in the middle of a cricket pitch, where he suffered a heart attack.

Despite being given antivenom, the boy died in hospital the next day.

The same type of snake is believed to have killed nine-year-old Milena Swilks from Rocky River near Armidale in March last year.

The little girl was picking corn in the family's vegetable patch when she was bitten on the foot.

She collapsed and was taken to hospital unconscious, where she died two hours later.

[notechistiger]

Maybe Miss_Croft was referring to restraining a snake (where it would be much more difficult to bite) rather than freehandling.

[urodacus_au]

a snake will never chase you and do not have a vendetta against you (shakes with vendetta’s are from story books).

Most fo what you have said so far should be kept off the forums and restricted to story books. You obviously have no experience with Elapids, best to quit now while only half the forum thinks your a nut. Your handing out potentially dangerous information to young and old here, stick with what you know.

Jordan

[redbellybite]

croft like evryone is saying you dont know crap from clay and you need to keep your so called knowledge away from here..........the emphasis placed on the common brown (eastern)snake as being easy to handle he just picked it up and put it in the bag WELL YEAH but at what risk??????? the eastern brown is a highly venomous snake and on toxicity alone is higher then a coastal taipan (the yield from a taipan is on average60 times that of eb)but what composes of the rating of venoms consists of toxicity and yield ,strike times, fang length etc .....the taipans are on the top of the list because when its all rolled into one they are the most deadliest,(the inland taipan is the most deadliest, terrestial snake known because of its spreading factor in the venom),I can tell you anyone that works with snakes would rather handle a python anyday and risk a bite as nasty as they can be to being bitten by a ven.....your comments were just plain silly and bahhhhhh.........RBB ..and its also known that snakes have poor eyesight at distance so 20 m away it wouldve not seen you .........and can not hear human voices either and another myth buster snakes only have 1 lung...

[Sdaji]

Just settle it with a pistol duel and get it over with!

[arbok]

miss croft, are u doing any snake handling courses? i'd love to see ya demonstrating your techniques

[Hetty]

Originally Posted by Miss_Croft

The Easter Common Brown that was striking at about 20 meters (Very aggressive snake) was caught by hand (No tongs, not hooks – just bare hands) and released about 100 yards away (Away from the houses) by a registered snake catcher (Owner of the house where the snake was found). Just for the record he had never head of snake hooks or snake tongs. He would just bend down and pick up the snake, place it in a bag.

So the Easter Brown isn't as cute and cuddly as the Easter bunny?

[Szepp]

Miss Croft is correct in a sense that elapids are generally much easier to handle than vipers. As vipers are generally more robust and faster striking and strike from funny angles.

Redbellybite, by the way some snakes have very good eye sight. all snakes have stereoscopic smell. Snakes bodies act as a giant ear as they can detect vibrations though the ground. Many vipers have heat sensor pits that can detect minuscule temperature differences. Although most snakes have poor vision most can still detect movement quite well. So basically i am saying they are not just blind dumb animals. They have an array of sophisticated sensory apparatus, essp pit vipers.

At the end of the day free handling elapids is a massive rush, and can in fact be a religious experience to some people as it affects their awareness, sharpening it to an unimaginable level. Someone said the closer you are to death the more alive you feel. HOWEVER i recommend budgie jumping or parachuting or knitting underpants for a rush, playing with dangerous elapids is like playing Russian roulette, and you will become a cropper soon enough.

[Australis]

Originally Posted by Szepp

Miss Croft is correct in a sense that elapids are generally much easier to handle than vipers. As vipers are generally more robust and faster striking and strike from funny angles. .

The comparison she had drawn in her post was between elapid snakes and pythons.
If your going to make a comparison between the build of elapid snakes and vipers the
genus Acanthophis shouldnt be forgotten.

[Miss_Croft]

RBB – I think what you are arguing about is the risk of picking up a venomous snake in Australia. The risk is there and I would not recommend anyone without correct training (Been able to handle your pet python is NOT training for handling venomous snakes). I am not arguing that it is SAFE to touch – interfere – or get close to a venomous snaks. What I have said is you have less change of been bitten (If handled correctly) – free or otherwise – handling a venomous snake.

Risk: It is very risky going near – picking up – or interfering with a venomous snake. The risk with a python in much lower as if it bites you (been bitten by a python does not mean you will end up dead or in hospital) I agree 100% with you – I too would rather handle a python any day.

Snakes have poor eyesight – I think they have better eyesight than what you are suggesting. What is snakes biggest predator? (Other than humans) – I think kookaburras? - If a snake is to avoid kookaburras – then it requires good distance eyesight. I mentioned the eastern common brown – as I had never seen a snake start to strike (S-bend) at that distance before.

Snakes cannot hear human voices – Snakes have good directional hearing – just they do not have ears like humans. The current school of thought is they use their jaws for stereo hearing.

See: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...04/2179359.htm

The person who I referred to in the last post has been catching snakes for most of his life – he is now in his 60s – has never been bitten – he does not know what a snake hook, snake tongs are.

I think a good conclusion form this thread is:

• Handling elapidsis different to handling python – having the skills to handle a python does not mean you have the skills to handle an elapid.
• Been able to free handle a python does not mean you have the skills to free handle an elapid
• Interfering with an elapids is dangerous and should never be attempted unless you have the correct training – been bitten may result in death (Even antivenin may kill you.)
• It is much safer handling pythons – their bite does not kill you
• Handling elapids is NOT a mucho thing

I still stick to my statement it is easier to handle elapids than pythons, but it is safer to handle a python - elapid bite can kill you