green tree SNAKE

[rlowey]

Thanks magpie...the point I was disagreeing with was the statement that they are all venemous (see Bartitji's earlier comment).

What does the paper you are refering to relate to? Im keen to collect any new info.

Liberated- Just out of curiousity...how much do common tree snakes sell for in QLD?

[Adam]

They are bloody not ven. GET IT THROUGH YOUR thick head B.... They are in the class one category, go check your species list, oh that is if you have one!!!! Better still go to the NPWS link and look at the species list.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also had to force feed my GTS and I never saw anything that looked like fangs at the back front or side of her mouth!! She even bit me on a couple of occasions and I certainly never felt ANYTHING but a little sting as it does with all snakes followed by a little bit of MY blood. :roll: :idea: :wink:

[Magpie]

Adam you have some serious issues there boy.
The paper is not out yet, will post a link when it is.
I will suggest that if you go to the forums link on that link that was posted for venomdoc and go to the venomdoc section under venemous australian colubrids.

[instar]

Does anyone know, from personal experience, if gts are easy to get feeding on f/t mice/rats.
do breeders of this species generally try to get them eating mice/rats before sale? How much can i expect to pay for one feeding on mice/rats please.oh, and what class are they in N.S.W ?
please dont argue about it, cheers Inny

[Adam]

Well Magpie I don't really care if they decided to calss them as Ven. Cause they aren't. I have owned 4 of them and I would love to know where thier venom glands are and excactly where their fangs are!!!!!! Yes inny they can be a pain in the bum to wean onto rats and mice, but then their are some people who manage this with no dramas. By the way Magpie I have IN FRONT of me the species list and they are in the category Class 1 RKL Snakes-Non Venomous species Species code is c2633 Dendrelaphis punculata Green Tree Snake. So I wonder who has the issues????????

[Fuscus]

According to Ehmann Dendrelaphis lack venom apparatus.

[NoOne]

Don't they just lack fangs or something, or the venom isn't injected by fangs.

Fact is they may as well be non venemous cause they can't hurt people.

[Adam]

Thanx Fuscy ol' boy. I thought I had MY facts straight. I do care a lot about my animals and learn as much as humanly possible when I keep them.

[ackie]

hmmmmm...i still think u hav issues, maybe u are in denial
i hav also kept a fair few gts and hav always thought they r non-venomous seeing as their bites dont hurt at all, they eat their food alive and they r classed in just about everything as non-venomous.
But u hav to think, if they r doing research on them by reliable herpetologists and they find venom then its gotta mean sumthan. It also might just be a reminant from gts a very long time ago, and thats all thats left of a venomous species as now they feed on prey easy to over power which means no venom is needed. So they might still hav glands but may not put them to use. Sort of like how pythons have spurs in which the back legs used to be, or how legless lizards (hence the name scaly-foot) have a flap of skin where the hind legs once occured. So although green tree snakes may be venomous, they may aswell stay classed as non-venomous. Even if they do inject venom, it doesnt mean that they hav to hav enlarged fangs, they like brown snakes may hav solid fangs with grooves in which the venom "rolls" down into the puncture wound, but this doesnt hav to mean that the "venomous fangs" hav to be any larger than other teeth. I am not 110% sure on this but it is my theory from wat i hav gathered and i am stickin by Brodie and venomdoc and believe that in some way common tree snakes r venomous.
Brendan.

[Adam]

OK ackie. Fair enough, so that means you believe in evolution, well I don't and snakes NEVER had back legs!!!!!!!!!! Those appendages were put there by our creator be it God or whatever so I don't beleive in the theory that they used to be and now decided they don't need venom. Fair enough if they can provide legitimate documentation and show us all the milking of a Green Tree Snake then I WILL believe!!!!! UNTILL then I don't think I am the one with issues I am just saying what I have learnt from books and from THE ACTUAL keeping of these guys. I know all about the different methods of invenomation and the different type of fangs, what I am saying is they don't have fangs. So if they don't have fangs, then why would they have venom glands, unless the venom is delivered to the stomach of the snake??!!

[Fuscus]

Also according to Ehmann, with Australian colubridae, only Boiga species have venom glands.

But Cogger splits the family into two two subfamilies Colubrinae which contain both hollow-toothed, rear-fanged venomous ( Boiginae ) genus and solid-toothed non-vemonous ( Dendrelaphis and Tropidonophis ) and the subfamily Homalopsinae all of which are rear-fanged hollow-toothed, venomous and aquatic.

But Swan & Wilson divide them into three subfamilies (in oz, 7 worldwide) Colubrinae,Homalopsinae and Natricnae. Natricnae are found worldwide and are common predators of toads. The only Oz species is the Keelback Tropidonophis maririi. This is the species that feeds on young cane toads. They also claim that No Australian colurids are dangerous to humans but then state (of Boiga irregularis) "Very large specimens could produce uncomfortable symptoms". And to think I have free handled a very large specimen, wonder what they mean by "uncomfortable"?

Have I muddied the water enough?

[Adam]

Mate that is spot one I just couldn't have been bothered typing in all that. "uncomfortable" hmmmmmmmmmmmmm yes one would have to ponder just HOW uncomfortable it would be.

[ackie]

well thats ur opinion and i hav mine.

[Adam]

Cool lets leave it at that then. If you can prove what you have said I will gladly accept the fact they venomous, but I must have been lucky all those times I got bitten or scrapped my fingers on thier fangs when I was stuffing a gold fish down it's throat cause I NEVER got sick or anything more than a python bite.I would love to know how they can eat live prey though.

[Adam]

Sorry just couldn't help myself.