IBD

[Kenshin]

hi there i have a question about ibd

well not really the desease itself just the testing for it is there any availible method for testing for ibd in boids in aus???

i mean apart from killing the snake and takeing a brain tissue sample?

thanks

[dugadugabowbow]

I think thats the only way to test for it, after they have died.

I was told by a prominent vet that more is known in australia than what there was a few years ago but i dont get the responses and answers to questions in enough detail to give me any confidence.Maybe geckodan (danny) would be a good person to ask kenshin and dugs as he is a vet or i think he is.I thought the Florida vet college was most advanced but i am told its not necessarily the case.

[geckodan]

The simple answer is "NO". There is no 100% method of easily testing for IBD or OPMV. Biopsies can help in an affected animal but mostly an animal showing significant clinical signs is euthanased and sent for histopathology. As for the live, clinically normal snake, we have no non invasive tests available to us in this country.

[Kenshin]

damn it....


p.s. CALM piss me off

[Ricko]

you trying to get all ya snakes into w.a?

[Kenshin]

would be nice to yea

[Herc]

you would think by now someone would have worked out a way of detecting the virus in the blood, as they can just about find everything else by blood test these days. i was once told that the "powers that be" don't want a test to be made that finds this virus, as then a cure will be eventually found also, there by ripping apart their theory that, if it can only be identified by killing the animals then they shouldn't be kept. this so called logical gets you wondering....
just my 2 cents.
i don't know how much truth is behind the above statement, but i did after all come from a govenment employee....

[Kenshin]

CALM do some pretty messed up things.....

[Hix]

i don't know how much truth is behind the above statement, but i did after all come from a govenment employee....

As a government employee (first a State one, now Federal) you can take it from me - don't believe everything you here from them, unless they're an expert in their field.

Detecting viruses in the blood can be a very involved and time-consuming (=expensive) process. Getting funds to support the research can be very difficult and slow. The causative agent is a retro-like virus, but according to this paper http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/sacs/wildlife/IBDINFO.html
the actual virus has not even been identified. (Unfortunately, there's no date on the article).



Hix

[TLC]

Found this info online (since I'm a newbie had to find out what IBD was)

Q: Can the disease be diagnosed in live snakes?
A: Yes...through blood testing ("For hematologic and plasma biochemical determinations, 0.6 ml of blood was placed in each of three microtainer tubes containing lithium heparin. All samples were submitted for hematological and plasma biochemical determinations within 30 min after collection. Whole blood examination included RBC, WBC, differential WBC, and determination of PCV, and Hb concentrations. Plasma biochemical analyses included determination of concentrations of sodium, potassium, chloride, carbon dioxide, urea nitrogen (BUN), creatinine, calcium, glucose, phosphorus, total bilirubin, cholesterol, uric acid, total protein, albumin, globulin, alkaline phosphatase, SGOT, SGPT. For comparative purposes, clinically affected boa constrictors were arbitrarily categorized as either acutely affected (<2 months following onset of signs) or chronically affected (>2 months following onset).
Acutely affected snakes had leukocytosis, relative lymphocytosis, lower total protein and globulin values, and significantly higher SGOT values than did chronically affected snakes.
Here's data on the acutely affected (n=6, out of a study group of 15; Schumacher, et al.)

RBC 0.7 +/- 0.1
Hemoglobin 7.6 1.2
PCV 22.3 4.1
WBC 13,733 6,639
Heterophils 19.7 13.3
Lymphocytes 46.8 20.5
Monocytes 3.8 2.4
Eosinophils 0.2 0.4
Basophils 3.2 6.4
Azurophils 23.3 7.4


There is no date supplied but more info is available here ....
IBD Virus Info

[NCHERPS]

TLC, That's a interesting read.
Unfortunately, you will probably find that the testing facility isn't available to us here in Australia as yet, as Geckodan has already stated.
If anyone know's differently, please share.

[herptrader]

Yes but what it does show is that it can be tested for in a blood sample which was one of the questions.

I am guessing that results based on an analysis such as this would be a good guide but possibly inconclusive.

Such a test would obviously cost a bit but given that IBD can be absolutely fatal to python collections it could be pretty cheap insurance.

[Hix]

TLC,

As has been stated, that is interesting, and as I'm at work I don't have time to follow the link and read more. I am curious, however, about how they get a bilirubin count from blood, or why they would want one.

In the results listed at the bottom, they mean nothing unless we know what the baseline data for a boa constrictor is (and the figures are probably different for every species).

Plus the data looks very loose - the WBC (white blood count), lymphocytes, heterophils and monocytes all have a +/- range close to or more than 50% of their result, and the basophils and eosinophils have +/- values double the final result (which I assume is the mean).

These results could be loose because there were only n=6 subjects, which really isn't a lot of subjects.

As I said before: it would help to know what the data for a normal constrictor is so we have some comparison.



Hix

[geckodan]

What those results tell us is that in cases where we suspect IBD, those changes can add fuel to the fire and improve our diagnostic suspicion in the face of suggestive clinical signs. They are of little use in the non clinical animal as they can also occur with any other inflammatory condition. Until the actual virus is 100% confirmed we can't create a test. Even then, if the test is not created in Australia it is unlikely that it will be available here. Why??. Quarantine rules apply for microscopic animals as well and as these test require that there be some biological component to them they are not allowed in. This is why we still have no test in Australia for in house testing of beak and feather disease and polyoma virus in birds although it has been on the market in the US for 10 years. For the same reason, a vaccine will also never make it into this country in the near future if they happen to develop one.