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12-Jul-07, 04:27 PM
|  | Sponsor | Join Date: May-04 Location: Pilbara Region W.A. | | | |
Not everybody likes to keep their reptiles in artificially created caged environments. I keep several species of reptiles in the most natural out door setups as I can achieve and besides adding food, leave them to their own fate. My pleasure comes from observing more of their natural behaviour that tends to come out in them this way.
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12-Jul-07, 04:57 PM
|  | Sdaji Subscriber | Join Date: Jun-04 Location: Victoria | | |
Tell them to feed 95% of their baby snakes to Kookaburras, give them ticks, let some starve to death and of course, if there are any health issues, leave them untreated... just like in the wild 
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12-Jul-07, 05:01 PM
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not condoneing ppl mistreating animals. But in there defence some ppl dnt have the resources to study alot about there animals and its not like the npws who we get our books from give ppl any help just take ur cash an thats the last of it.
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12-Jul-07, 05:04 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | |
we must rember that even thou these animals a in captivity they are NOT domesticated animals but wild animals that we care for. By looking and learning from their behaviour in the wild we can learn more about these animlas we all love so much. Captivity does not always give us the chance to do this.
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12-Jul-07, 06:33 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jun-06 Age/Gender: 34  | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason  this is not directed at anyone inparicular! i feel this gets thrown around WAY to often!
'IN THE WILD' is a bad term imo, i have a part time job in a pet shop on the weekends and i here this atleast once a day! this is just a few of the things i have customers say to me every weekend:
-'they dont need a heat light, they wouldnt have it in the wild'
-'they eat live mice and rats and what ever else i catch around the house, they would eat it in the wild'
-'i feed him every 10-12 weeks, thats all he would catch in the wild'
-i never worm them, who's gona worm them in the wild?'
im not joking this is some of the things i here EVERYWEEK! then i reply with the following:
1) these arent wild animals.....they are captive and so should be given the best of conditions that you can give them!
2) i then usually ask if they have a dog and wether the treat it like a wild dog, and throw them rotting animal, or just release animals into the backyard so the dog can catch it and kill it like it would do IN THE WILD, dont supply a bed etc and just let it find somewhere in the yard it likes (which some dogs do), wether they worm them or wash their dog.......... usually they look after their dog ok, but to them they look at reptiles like wild animals still.
i just believe with the rate that this hobby is growing, that the coment just gets thrown around to much and people should start talking about reptiles lilke they are captive animals more cause if we the breeders dont, then all the new comers will also be using the excuss that its like that 'in the wild' would love to here others thoughts on the topic! | Well said Jason. I own a pet shop and I too hear it all the time. What ppl need to realise is that wild animals have the freedom to find warm spots and cool spots as needed. They can find water, and how the hell do they know that an animal would only find food once every 10 weeks. The bush would be riddled with abundance of food which our captive pets don't have free access to. We hold them captive it is our responsibility to give them the care they require for a healthy life. How can they find food or water while locked in a wooden box.
Its very hyprocritical for someone to say a snake should be treated like a wild animal while a dog should be treated like a member of the family. Any pet you take into your home deserves the same respect. We are responsible for taking care of our fauna.
We are lucky to be living in an advanced world. How would you like to be treated like an ape and have to live under a rock. You wouldn't survive.
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For every minute you're angry, you lose sixty seconds of happiness |
12-Jul-07, 06:45 PM
| | Sponsor | Join Date: May-04 Location: Pilbara Region W.A. | | | |
It was great to see for the first time flat shelled turtles aestivate in the garden after giving them the opportunity. Some times setting up critters naturally outside brings up more questions than I ever thought I would be asking e.g. why only a percentage of our turtles here decided to do this while the others stayed in the pond and acted like it was still summer ?
Our biggest problem in trying to mimic the wild in town is actually feral cats, ( although maybe this does some how represent todays reality in the wild ) we have killed 4 in the last 3 weeks.
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12-Jul-07, 11:10 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-06 Location: CQ Age: 23 | | | |
Jason as to your post about "IN THE WILD" in the relativity of things snakes as compared to dogs ARE WILD, how long has the dog been domesticated as to the reptile. I am not sure on the exact number but I think you could safely say a least hundreds of years, so comparing a dog to a reptile is being very simple and not really thinking your argument through. I don;t mean offense but really think about it, how in anyway do either of the two really relate in the terms of domestication, they don't really, multi generation captive bred in snake terms generally mean probably 20 predecessor lines of captive breeding which would be about 50 to 60 years at max, dogs is like hundreds or thousands of times previously captive bred, I can't explain it properly but I would hope you should all understand what I mean. So in no way can you compare reptiles to dogs. barely any of there requirements other than food and water are remotely the same.
I agree with a few things I saw in the thread. Snakes are not actually wild but are not domesticated, and I do agree that people should use this term to treat their reptiles badly, but at the same time the fact that they are one of the newest "pets" you can own or even call it one of the latest fads means that they are not all that "domesticated" hence they do need very similar conditions to what they would have to in the wild.
Hatchies are born with instincts and it takes a lot and I mean a lot of "captive" breeding to wipe out instincts, so until the original "wild" instincts are bred out of the retile keeping conditions and occasionally refering to retiles in the WILD manner cannot hurt just helps people realise and to keep them as natuaral as possible which can in no way hurt them. It can only hurt them through the lazy people who use the examples that you posted to hurt them, which by the way I do not condone, it is people like this who should not have reptiles
Have a good night
Cheers
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12-Jul-07, 11:15 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-06 Location: CQ Age: 23 | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjones not condoneing ppl mistreating animals. But in there defence some ppl dnt have the resources to study alot about there animals and its not like the npws who we get our books from give ppl any help just take ur cash an thats the last of it. |
No offense but it is easy to pass the buck. With accessto the internet sites like this and other, also libraries and books from abook store people " IF THEY WANTED TO" could get plenty of information. JMO
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13-Jul-07, 01:06 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-06 Location: CQ Age: 23 | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue we must rember that even thou these animals a in captivity they are NOT domesticated animals but wild animals that we care for. By looking and learning from their behaviour in the wild we can learn more about these animlas we all love so much. Captivity does not always give us the chance to do this. |
So true trueblue
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13-Jul-07, 02:03 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Darwin Age/Gender: 32  | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue we must rember that even thou these animals a in captivity they are NOT domesticated animals but wild animals that we care for. By looking and learning from their behaviour in the wild we can learn more about these animlas we all love so much. Captivity does not always give us the chance to do this. | NOT domesticated does that depend on what color morphs you own i beg to differ some of our color forms that have been selectivly bred to suit our need weather it be for looks or $$ classes our loved snakes in the domesticated category.
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13-Jul-07, 02:08 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-06 Location: CQ Age: 23 | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabool NOT domesticated does that depend on what color morphs you own i beg to differ some of our color forms that have been selectivly bred to suit our need weather it be for looks or $$ classes our loved snakes in the domesticated category. |
No it doesn't. Is aany particular form the same as a dog does it do as it is told does oit eaat what it is given etc etc etc, if you answered no to any of these questions the it is not domesticated.
Cheers
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13-Jul-07, 09:23 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | |
imo, its thru observing their natural behavior etc in the wild that helps us keep and breed them sucssessfully in captivity, so the frase in the wild actually means alot to the way i keep my animals.
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13-Jul-07, 09:27 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: May-05 Location: Sydney Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by sengir occasionally refering to retiles in the WILD manner cannot hurt just helps people realise and to keep them as natuaral as possible which can in no way hurt them. It can only hurt them through the lazy people who use the examples that you posted to hurt them, which by the way I do not condone, it is people like this who should not have reptiles | unfortunatly they're the ones who are the problems! dont get me wrong i love a great outdoor enclosure as much as anybody with dragon and skinks, turts etc, its the people that have these setups and offer NO food because in the wild they believe these animals dont get much food so they think they will have enough insects etc strole through the enclosure to keep them satisfied.
i know of a few big breeders that keep diamonds out side in sydney and think this is fine, because at the first sign of any health issues the animals are brought inside; they are fed properly, shelter is offered, parasites are treated etc and the animal is healthy. the example i refered to in my original post about an animal being skin and bones was a diamond that was kept out side in winter in a bird cage with no warmth offered at all, was not conditioned for cooling and end up getting RI, i suggested taking the animal to the vet and they reckon its to expensive and that it'll be fine cause they reckon such and animal would get over it and be fine in the wild!
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13-Jul-07, 09:34 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | |
totally differnt senario thou jason, in the wild parasites dont do as much damage as they can move away from their droppings etc as alot of parasites have direct life cycles and keep re-infecting captive reptiles.
In the wild they can use the sun and under ground to regulate boby temps year round when needed.
This imo is why we must use the wild as a guide for the way we keep alot of out reptiles.
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13-Jul-07, 01:05 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: May-05 Location: Sydney Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue totally differnt senario thou jason, in the wild parasites dont do as much damage as they can move away from their droppings etc as alot of parasites have direct life cycles and keep re-infecting captive reptiles.
In the wild they can use the sun and under ground to regulate boby temps year round when needed.
This imo is why we must use the wild as a guide for the way we keep alot of out reptiles. | i agree. reptiles are remarkable at regulating temps and controlling parasites ect, i do know this. the problems lay with those who have the wrong idea about reptiles in the wild, people think that the regulate their temps without the need of anything eg burrowing, laying in water to help drown ectoparasites etc. i feel that people think that mites and temp regulation can be achieved as if reptiles where endotherms.
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