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26-Aug-08, 07:52 PM
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I notice quite regularly people advertising discounts on pairs of animals from the same season. In the thread on SR's pairs of albino olives I asked a question that seems to have been lost in the thread without getting answered, which was, are these animals siblings, or are SR fortunate enough to have two sets of het or homo albino animals to breed from? If they are siblings, are they being offered on the understanding that people are going to attempt to breed them? Would people breed them? Do those people understand the potential consequences?
My concern with a lot of "morphs" is that as they become more desirable and more available, people will become more and more inclined to inbreed sibling or cousin animals for the obviously quite valueable offspring, which makes the chance of recessive health problems cropping up exponentially more likely the longer it goes on. What are other people's thoughts on this?
I should point out that I'm not criticising SR in any way, they're just the most recent example I've seen here of pairs of animals being offered that are assumedly from the same clutch.
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26-Aug-08, 07:55 PM
|  | And Cameron Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-08 Location: Hornsby Gender:  | | | |
If i was in possession of two very valuable/rare reptiles, Yes i believe i would inbreed them.
Last edited by Rocky; 26-Aug-08 at 08:08 PM.
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26-Aug-08, 07:56 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-08 Location: Brisbane Gender: | | | |
From everything I've researched and all the reputable and highly experienced breeders I've spoken to, reptiles can be safely inbred directly to siblings or parents for up to 4 generations. After 4 generations new blood has to be brought into the mix.
I don't have a problem with it. Inbreeding is the best way to strengthen a specific trait and once this is is strengthened it can be mixed into another line with a similar trait.
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26-Aug-08, 07:57 PM
|  | Confessed WOMAHOLIC Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-06 Location: Lakes Entrance Age/Gender: 28 | | | |
Well as far as i know SXR dont have albino olives for sale they may have them but have not made it know
i think you have them mixed with snake ranch maybe
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26-Aug-08, 08:02 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-08 Location: Melbourne Age/Gender: 35 | | | |
As far as I know, all albino pythons have come from the one animal, they have been inbred a few times already. So even if you get a pair from seperate clutches, all the breeding pairs of today were from the same clutch 3 or more years ago.
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My name is Andy, and Im a reptiholic.
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26-Aug-08, 08:03 PM
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DP: Four generations?!?! As in, the forth generation would be siblings and great-grandchildren of the first pair, or that the forth generation would be second-cousins? The latter is risky, the former is positively irresponsible. And are you saying that inbreeding reptiles is considered to be less risky than other animals? On what basis?
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26-Aug-08, 08:06 PM
|  | Diamond Dude Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-06 Location: Newcastle Gender: | | | |
they have to do it in the wild
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26-Aug-08, 08:08 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Oct-06 Location: NTH QLD Gender: | | | |
How many original stock animals of RSP where there again? 5 maybe 6? Roughies would have the shallowest genepool of any australian captive pythons, at least albino animals can be bred outside of direct blood relatives....
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I am not anti-whale, I am pro-plankton...
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26-Aug-08, 08:08 PM
|  | Friend of huey Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: on the coast Gender: | | | |
There is people who have bred more than 4 gen with no problem.
Though I have heard of a bit of a funny thing going on with some jungles.
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the only good cat, is the one in the snake.
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26-Aug-08, 08:10 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-08 Location: Melbourne Age/Gender: 35 | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn_  DP: Four generations?!?! As in, the forth generation would be siblings and great-grandchildren of the first pair, or that the forth generation would be second-cousins? The latter is risky, the former is positively irresponsible. And are you saying that inbreeding reptiles is considered to be less risky than other animals? On what basis? | Even in the wild pythons inbreed.
From a hatchling to an adult, a python dosnt travel all that far.
So more often than not they inbreed in the wild.
Thats why there are local pacific animals out there, they are inbred in the wild.
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My name is Andy, and Im a reptiholic.
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26-Aug-08, 08:15 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-08 Location: Western Australia Gender:  | | | | |
26-Aug-08, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kathryn_ DP: Four generations?!?! As in, the forth generation would be siblings and great-grandchildren of the first pair, or that the forth generation would be second-cousins? The latter is risky, the former is positively irresponsible. And are you saying that inbreeding reptiles is considered to be less risky than other animals? On what basis? | On what basis do you declare inbreeding of reptiles to be "risky" or "positively irresponsible"?
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26-Aug-08, 08:16 PM
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Andy: you're right, a certain amount of inbreeding does occur in the wild, geneticists have all manner of clever formulae for working out how often it happens, and the affect it has on a population. As some bright person here said, snakes get run over in the wild, doesn't make it a good idea to drive through your herp room.
Cement, aspidites: I'm not saying they *will* have problems, just that it's a serious risk. Other traits, including recessive disease alleles, are passed in exactly the same way recessive colour is. Two het individuals will produce one in four affected offspring.The chances of accidentally breeding from two hets increase the more you inbreed. Given the size of snake clutches, the number of sick snakes you might suddenly end up with after four gens is very worring. There's simply no way of knowing the possible types or severity of genetic disease in reptiles until it occurs in some unfortunate animal/s. The fact is, any animal or any species or phylum could harbour a very serious deleterious recessive allele, and we just wouldn't know until it popped up. Inreeding siblings is one way to find out much more quickly than is desirable.
Last edited by Kathryn_; 26-Aug-08 at 08:35 PM.
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26-Aug-08, 08:39 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-08 Location: Brisbane Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn_ And are you saying that inbreeding reptiles is considered to be less risky than other animals? On what basis? | Genetics. Reptiles are not mammals. They're very different animals to you and I.
Might I ask where you're getting your info on diseases? And what these might be?
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26-Aug-08, 08:44 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jun-06 Location: Victoria Gender: | | | |
They all end up coming from the one alibino olive don't they?
They darwin's all come from Blondie
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