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21-Mar-05, 10:21 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender:  | | | Intergrades? Why Locked???
Should I or shouldn't I? That was the question I had to ask myself before posting this 
I'm curious as to why this has been locked? Run out of chill pills perhaps? Or just a case of big brother can't be bothered moderating it? I didn't see anything that was getting so nasty as to have it locked. Unless of course it's a topic that can't be convincingly solved and was better off locked? Greebs? Why? What's wrong with a rational debate? I think this topic will keep popping up all the time - it might as well be hit on the head once and for all. I'm keeping out of it generally, I think the points put forward by Bob, Browns and Ad have been awesome, but I'm wondering where it will go. Surely it's better to know these things, or learn more from them, rather than go about your merry ways in the wrong direction.
Has there been any genuine, properly recorded field research done in this area? If so, by who? What are their findings on the topic?
The only reason I'm writing this, is just when I thought I was understanding something that's obviously so damned complicated, I'm see more areas of grey than black & white.
So back to my first original question:
Can a breeder make an intergrade? Hell! Let's poll it! Then nobody has to say anything to anyone |
21-Mar-05, 10:32 AM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-04 Location: sydney | | | | RE: Intergrades? Why Locked???
Isnt an intergrade one that occurs naturally as oposed to specific x breeding by keeper??
ARRRRRRGHHH its all technicality anyway , who cares! 
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21-Mar-05, 11:01 AM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Feb-04 Location: North West WA | | | | RE: Intergrades? Why Locked???
a breeder would need a looooooong time to start creating anything that was a true intergrade. I dont believe that intergrades have only just surfaced but have evoloved over centuries or thousands of years and for a breeder to create these they would need to have a long life. Also i think they would need alot of animals to start originally working with to ensure diversity through the offsring. IMO |
21-Mar-05, 11:43 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-03 Location: Gosford | | | | RE: Intergrades? Why Locked???
You can't make an intergrade. Only nature can. Remember they are not a mixture of two species which everyone seems to miss. They are the missing links as one species turned into another due to an outside influrance of some sort. Aint nature wonderfull the way it works.
And Moose, Greg Hollis and collegues have been doing research on this species for many years. This research is still ongoing but we now know they are genectically different then pure species and we roughly know the borders they extent to in the NSW Coastal population. They don't appear to commonly breed with pures at their borders, probably as most realise they are genectically different in some way(possibly pheromones) so this is why they ARE NOT spreading like Cane Toads throughout the areas of pures.
End of Story and I fail to see whats so complicated. Nature only can produce Intergrades by changing a species from one form to something new. Man can only produce hybrids by crossing species. |
21-Mar-05, 11:46 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-03 Location: Gosford | | | | RE: Intergrades? Why Locked???
I will just revise my answer in one point. A breeder can make an intergrade by mating a intergrade with a intergrade. But techniquely thats not really making one, only breeding one. :wink: |
21-Mar-05, 12:07 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-03 Location: Gosford | | | | RE: Intergrades? Why Locked???
Moose, I read the last 4 or so pages and I can understand why it was locked. Most people on this site tend to get fairly nasty while debating a point, and this is what I saw when I read these pages. The very last post was by Browns who reckons I am full of it. He is entilled to his own opinion just like everyone on this site, but there is no need to become insulting when you don't get your own way in a debate.
I personally am sick of being insulted when trying to steer people, who have never seen a intergrade in the wild in their life, in the right direction. So this is the last I will comment on these animals and will now leave to the " experts" on this site to debate. |
21-Mar-05, 12:39 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jun-04 Location: Melbourne | | | | RE: Intergrades? Why Locked???
I actually did want your opinion bob on the picture i posted as i bought the snake just before x-mas. I didnt know jack about intergrades before this thread but since the thread i had a real hard look at the snake and now think its an intergrade. Its locality is Port Stephens which i thought wasn't in the intergrade zone but since reading the thread from what i understand it is within their range.
Anyway the picture was taken yesterday and it is due to shed but would still like to hear your comments.
Cheers Stevo
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21-Mar-05, 01:20 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: | | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by bigguy
And Moose, Greg Hollis and collegues have been doing research on this species for many years. This research is still ongoing but we now know they are genectically different then pure species and we roughly know the borders they extent to in the NSW Coastal population. They don't appear to commonly breed with pures at their borders, probably as most realise they are genectically different in some way(possibly pheromones) so this is why they ARE NOT spreading like Cane Toads throughout the areas of pures.
| Thanks Bob, I think for me to personally understand the whole picture I will need to try and source Greg Hollis's field studies. I think it's the only way to get the full picture on what the hell is going on. Thank you so much for your input - and to everyone else who haven't blown their cool yet about this. Quote: |
Originally Posted by bigguy I personally am sick of being insulted when trying to steer people, who have never seen a intergrade in the wild in their life, in the right direction. | Hehehe I've never seen one in the wild :wink: But I'm certainly interested to know what all the Whoohar is about
This topic is an important one, it's a topic that is incorporated within our hobby, and certainly good information for a "newbie" like me to gather an understanding as to what the terminology means. It might also be benefitial in helping people streamline their current views on what it's all about also. I don't think these topics should have to be locked, and I think people need to refrain from getting personal about it.
I'm also not afraid to say in the "big picture" of reptiles I know sweet F all! But, I'm trying to learn as much as I possibilty can about it. |
21-Mar-05, 01:26 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: Brisbane | | | | Bob, alot of people find your condescending way of putting your theories forward insulting, extremely insulting. The way you talk about people who dont agree, yes the "experts", likeyou are the only one who knows anything. And the way you say you are trying to steer people in the right direction, you are trying to steer them in your direction. i have heard alot of debates on intergrades over the years and on some of your points i agree, overs i do not. But these forums are for people to put forward their points of veiw, not just agree with yours. If the DNA work has been done, i will read it and make my own decision. But until then it is not simple and like this "end of story" |
21-Mar-05, 01:45 PM
|  | Sponsor | Join Date: May-04 Location: Pilbara Region W.A. | | | | Pike01
Can you please explain to me what it is you don't agree with in regards to Bigguys thread ?
I am curious to know
Cheers Dave |
21-Mar-05, 02:04 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: | | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by PilbaraPythons Pike01
Can you please explain to me what it is you don't agree with in regards to Bigguys threrad ?
I am curious to know
Cheers Dave | You beat me to it Dave, I'm curious also. It's all very well saying someone is wrong, but you need to be able to back it up with facts. Everything Bob has said seems pretty factual as far as I can tell, and when it has appeared unclear, he's said so. |
21-Mar-05, 02:09 PM
| | Sponsor | Join Date: May-04 Location: Pilbara Region W.A. | | | | Excuse my lack of education but what doe's condescending mean as I don't have a dictionary. |
21-Mar-05, 02:28 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: Brisbane | | | | Wouldnt that be starting this up again, dont want to do that , i will pm you |
21-Mar-05, 02:29 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: Brisbane | | | | Talking down to people |
21-Mar-05, 02:37 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-04 Location: Brisbane | | | | Intergrades, intergrades why do you pop up and cause such dramas....then go away and then come back....is it to hear the same views over and over again...lol | | |
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