Intergrades? Why Locked???

[angelrose]

Originally Posted by Greebo

Nah, that one is easy. The woma X Bhp is a hybrid even though it is naturally occurring.

I agree, based on the fact that as far as current research tells us, this is a once off, a freak accident... which isnt a naturall everyday occurance in the wild... where as the term intergrade suggest "an integrated part of society" is just that, something in a certain community or range which occurs regularly and naturally, and i also see the point made here....
"I have no doubt that on the extreme borders of the changeover zone that intergrades may hybridize with pures, afterall there is no wall seperating them."
as once you step over the range boundry it is no longer part of the everyday integration but more in the freak accident stage again, making it hybrid and not integrade... am i making any sense to anyone except my self in this train of thought.... if not... then nevermind....JMHO

Originally Posted by AGAMIDAE

sorry but how would you know its hybrid between a woma and a black head.....without seeing both parants....may have a bit of black on top of the head but that not neff to say that?....just an unusual woma

im wondering if anyone DNA tested this guy or is it just a guess? (educated obviously)

Angel

[AGAMIDAE]

I think Pike and Bob now each other very well, you have missed the point Angle what Pike is saying, yes people on this site do talk down to other not knowing there back ground in herp...Pike has been around reptiles for many many years and I see that he has disagreed on important points, just so happens Bob wrote them, Pike as aslo disgreed and agreed with lots of people on this subject, and I for one is very keen to hear what he says about the intergrade issue as I consider him very knoweglable on reptiles in general...there is now need to be offended for Bob he is a big boy now...
Just coz is status says he is Juvenile doesnt mean he has just come on the herp world.

[Stevo]

Agamidae wrote:
you have missed the point Angle

sorry i found this bit rather amusing for a typo

[angelrose]

lol stevo.

not offend for bob, just in general... and been in the hobby 20 years or 5 mins doesnt matter to me, everybody is human and deserves the same respect and common curtesy, yeah i know i cant spell.

Angel

[angelrose]

Oh and you can disagree with someone without attacking them personally.. it is possible.. just a thought

Cant see why various people talk about ''pures'' and crossing in regards to spilota,whats termed intergrade is the colour form of spilota thats found in a specified location and they do vary abit but so do all spilotes anywhere.The colour and pattern of spilota in all locations is determined on survival of young suited to a particular location.I suppose i would have to agree with the toxicologist on these.Apparently theres not a big deal of difference between the dna of spilota anywhere in oz,though there must be some difference between all the various colour forms because dna determines colour so populations of what we call intergrades must have there own dna.

[Brodie_W]

Im with Bob - give it a rest!

Not everyone will be entirely convinced, ever. Even if someone who had been studying these animals for say 50 years, and wrote a book, there would always be a number of people who disagree.

Im just glad up here the carpets I find arent intergrades, so I dont even have too think about this crap!

[salebrosus]

Sorry, guys i have hardly read any of these posts, too much for this poor blonde.
But i'm curious, has anyone here got pics of juvenile and adult integrades and "pure" diamonds?
Yeah the integrades look ok but if i buy a Diamond, i expect a diamond....I'd spew if it came out an integrade.i'm curious to see if there are obvious differences among the juveniles.

Simone.

[moosenoose]

Originally Posted by Brodie_W

Im with Bob - give it a rest!

Not everyone will be entirely convinced, ever. Even if someone who had been studying these animals for say 50 years, and wrote a book, there would always be a number of people who disagree.

Im just glad up here the carpets I find arent intergrades, so I dont even have too think about this crap!

lol I do agree with you Brodes. I hope I haven't offended Bob in any way, I honestly wasn't meaning to bypass or dismiss what he was saying. I was interested in other opinions, that's all. I think he really is a bigguy .... and can take it on the chin from us little folk (I speak soley about me with saying that :wink

[BROWNS]

im wondering if anyone DNA tested this guy or is it just a guess? (educated obviously)

I'm sure the guys at Pilbara Pythons know exactly what it is,i'd say even a scale count should show some difference.Dave from Pilbarapythons has also noticed a different scale count in the bhp's found in a specific area over in WA compared to that of bhp's from other localities including Nt,Qld and other parts of WA.

Oh and you can disagree with someone without attacking them personally.. it is possible.. just a thought

Bob's a big boy angel and i'm sure is quite capable of defending himself if he thinks he is being personally attacked...just because pike and others who have raised very good points in this discussion don't see things exactly as Bob does doesn't mean they are wrong and Bob is right.There are several much more experienced herpers than bigguy who are members on this site and i would love to hear their views on the subject.Almost everyone here makes out or thinks Bob is like a god of the reptile world and knows all,but he doesn't...noone knows all about everything in the herp world which is why no matter how much experience you have you will still keep on learning all the time.

But i'm curious, has anyone here got pics of juvenile and adult integrades and "pure" diamonds?

Hey Simone,I posted a few of adult intergrades and one juvenile in the thread that got locked but diamonds look very different as hatchlings than they do as they get older.

[salebrosus]

Thanks heaps Browns,

Simone.