 Recent Herp Discussion | | | | | | | | Online Users: 216 | | 148 members and 68 guests | | $N@K3$, 762kck, 888lowndes888, absinthaddict, Adsell, Adzo, ally_pup, andyh, ANTARESIA1, azzar, batcho101, Bearded_Lady, beeman, bigguy, bitey, blading, book, bredli84, BrownHash, caleb96, cam73, caustichumor, channi, chicka, chiko48, CHONDROS, Clairebear, ClareB, cmclean, croc_hunter_penny, Daniel_Penrith, disasterpiece7.0, dizone, dodgie, dogger_009, doods189, dragons75, dragozz, draved, eden roscoe, elapid66, English, Eylandt, first_time_owner, fishbot, fishead, fitbikeco, Franco, fraser1980, froglet, frogmancorey56, funcouple, Gabe, Gavin, govinda-das, grimace256, herptrader, Hetty, heyhowdy, hodges, husskisam, ihaveherps, ilikeshingles, jbthompson, jessb, Jonno from ERD, junglepython2, Jungle_Freak, Jye and Peady, KaaTom, Katherine, kazray, kel, Kyro, lanceinator, Lewy, liberty, LullabyLizard, m3r, malika, malisa, mat.m, mattmc, mattyandnat, Metal_Jazz, miley_take, Minke, mis_gmh, MoreliaMatt, Mrs I, Nephrurus, Nikki_Elmo, No-two, Notorious_Guf, olivehydra, palmej, patonthego, Paul Atkinson, paulw6676, pete12, phatt01, Pythons_Reptiles, ravan, rebeccalg, rednut, repam, Reptilia, reptinate, Riley, Rocket, Rocky, SATH3N, Sdaji, shaxx, slim6y, slimebo, slimsandy, snake101, snake_boy, sophietopaz, steph, Stewydead, Stitched, stripe, sweetangel, tenacres1100, tooninoz, trouser_snake6, TURBO8, unique_creatures, W.T.BUY, wacko_jacko, waruikazi, Whimsey, wokka, Xadam87X, Xinibee, yellowtamarin, zulu | |  | | 
25-Jan-04, 11:51 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: NTH QLD | | | Jungles and Fatty Liver Disease
I've just had a really beautiful big adult male jungle die from fatty liver disease.It was very sad  he stopped eating one day and just refused to eat.I had no idea what was wrong with him and other than not eating he showed symptoms of being very uncomfortable and got pretty stroppy too.I had one guy who knows his stuff take a look at him as the vets around here have no idea, and he said he'd be right if he didn't eat for another year he was that big.I got this jungle as an adult, approx 6 years old.
Anyway, to cut a longer story short i took him to the vet and attended the autopsy and when he was cut open the amount of fat that basically fell out was disgusting.The vet was far from clued up on reptiles of any kind but said the fat was an awful lot.Other than fat we found nothing else such as parasites etc so i had him send some of the kidney and liver to be tested.The results came back and it was as i had thought-FATTY LIVER DISEASE.The vet did say that the liver appeared the same as a fatty liver in a mammal.
So this is what happens if you pump too much food into jungles for too long and try to grow them too quickly.This also happens with diamonds and bhp's which i have myself and am in no big rush to grow them.
I haven't found any documentation on this topic in jungles specifically.Not sure about diamonds or bhp's.
Has anyone else had an animal die from fatty liver disease from the animal being overfed  :
The pics are of the autopsy, and you can see for yourself how much fat there is.Wasn't real pretty that's for sure |
25-Jan-04, 11:56 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: NTH QLD | | | |
Don't know why i couldn't put two pics in the same post.Here is the other pic.
|
25-Jan-04, 11:57 PM
|  | biasedly unbiased Moderator | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: Wagga Wagga NSW 2650 Gender:  | | | |
That's no good, sorry to hear it.
It's always a risk buying adults.You hope people have done the right thing but you never know for sure.
__________________
You have the right to an opinion. Unfortunately, you appear to have chosen the wrong one.
|
26-Jan-04, 12:06 AM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: NTH QLD | | | |
Yeah,i'd been advised not to buy adults as you could be asking for trouble.What i'm not sure of is if people know not to pump the tucker into their jungles, as the big boy that died came from quite a reputable breeder.
I was also advised ages ago not to pump feed my jungles (which i don't)and the advice on both parts has been pretty well spot on.
|
26-Jan-04, 06:55 AM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: Newcastle, NSW | | | | |
26-Jan-04, 07:56 AM
| | | |
firstly im sorry to hear about your jungle it is very sad ... secondly that advice you are giving everyone is good as i dont believe in power feeding and it will make people think twice about doing stuff like that , yeah you might get them to breed quicker but is it really worth it in the long run...
|
26-Jan-04, 08:41 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Dec-03 Location: Mostly on the lounge watching the TV. | | | | Re: Jungles and Fatty Liver Disease
Quote: |
Originally Posted by BROWNS So this is what happens if you pump too much food into jungles for too long and try to grow them too quickly.This also happens with diamonds and bhp's which i have myself and am in no big rush to grow them. |
Just wondering why you'd think the 3 species you mentioned would be more susceptible to the disease over any other species?
__________________
Legal Notice: Receipt of this message constitutes your unconditional acceptance of agreement with all terms, conditions, conclusions and opinions, either expressed or implied, as interpreted by the author without further clarification.
|
26-Jan-04, 02:58 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Dec-03 Location: sydney | | | |
sounds similar to one of my diamonds. any more info would help!!
|
26-Jan-04, 03:04 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: Newcastle, NSW | | | |
:wink:
|
26-Jan-04, 04:26 PM
| | | |
its not really the size that is the problem, in the wild bhp's mainly eat other reptiles which have quite low fat content whereas in captivity they are usualy fed rodents which are high in fat content
|
26-Jan-04, 05:13 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: Sydney | | | |
Terrible news Browns, :-( but thankyou for sharing with us.
It is also good to see keepers willing to autopsy so that at least the beutiful animal's passing teaches us something.
__________________
Coles-Myer forever!
|
26-Jan-04, 05:50 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-04 Location: central coast N.S.W. | | | |
Browns, THANK YOU!!!! I really appreciate the post, very painful for you but helpful for the rest of us. My thoughts, "**** no animal deserves that !"
I have bought pythons from the bloke Simon is talking about & it is scarey how fast his snakes grow. I was feeding 3 month old hatchlings every few days & hatchlings he'd kept back were TWICE the size of mine. As someone pretty new to herps it's a problem when the advice you're given by a "expert" is to pump them full.
I would love someone to give me a reasonable feeding protocol for diamonds,carpets, BHP's & children's. I have tended to feed a lot in the first year but them back off to once a month (apart from winter) after that. Is that OK?
|
26-Jan-04, 07:55 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jun-03 Location: melbourne | | |
i got my diamond at 2 1/2 months old and the most often he has ever eaten since i got him was 10 days! he is now 11 months old and eats every 3 weeks - VERY occasionally 2 weeks. i would have thought every few days wouldnt really give em enuf time to properly digest everything but then again what do i know... i like to at least make sure jules has emptied his system before his next meal. seems to be working fairly well i think cos he is growing nicely and has a good sized head compared to body etc etc.
|
30-Jan-04, 01:39 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: NTH QLD | | | |
Not exactly sure why the diamonds are susceptible to fatty liver but with jungles and bhp's i'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with their diet in the wild.Also the areas these species are found have pretty consistent or reasonably predictable seasonal conditions.These areas would have a reasonably predictable supply of prey.This applies to diamonds and others such as coastals also but don't know why diamonds are more prone than say a coastal.
As mentioned with bhp's their diet in the wild is mainly reptiles which have a low fat content .Some people may feed adult rats or mice to their bhp's which have high fat content which along with powerfeeding can cause fatty liver disease.I know 2 people who lost adult female breeding bhp's to fatty liver just recently.These had been grown too quickly and fed too much as adults.
Jungles diet in the wild is made up of mainly birds and small rodents.These also have low fat content.Many people will have experienced jungles that just won't touch rats no matter what.Feeding jungles adult mice with higher fat content along with power feeding if they take rats can cause fatty liver.Only one of my jungles won't take rats and the rest never get fed adult rats or mice depending on the size of the snake.
I feel that feeding every 3 days is too much.I'd hate to see what the guy feeds his animals that are heaps bigger at the same age.I feed all my snakes once a week and my bhp's don't get fed as big a rodent as any carpet the same size.
Having said that you can feed species such as inland carpets(murrays) and bredli twice as much and fast which won't affect them.
Hope this helps.........
|
30-Jan-04, 04:13 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Jan-04 Location: NSW Country | | | |
I met a breeder who never feeds his snakes adult prey as this is the time that the prey start to fully develop their fat. He instead feed them sub-adults but just more of them as they contain less fat as they are spending all their energy into developing muscle and size.
| | |
|
