 Recent Herp Discussion | | | | | | | | Online Users: 113 | | 62 members and 51 guests | | $N@K3$, .....Newbie....., 888lowndes888, andy23, Aussietoby, BT, Bugsy, CassM, coz666, Crazy_Snake08, Dan19, DA_GRIZ, dougydoug, dragon lady, dragon170, Drazzy, Earthling, firezone1au, FROGGIESrCUTEo_O, gozz, grimbeny, grizz, Helikaon, Hetty, hozy6, ilovepythons, james thompson, jamgo, jessb, juliedamian, Kathryn_, Landscaper, lloki, m.punja, mattG, method, Minka, mjohan, MzSel, nomes, nonamesleft, Puggs, reptile32, rissole1231, rmcneill, Slytherin, Snakeaddict, souljah, swampie, thomas_r, Vicmorrow, Vincent21, vinspa, VixenBabe, WingsOfGold, zobo | | |
View Poll Results: Would you consider still seeing this vet after the venomoid revelation? | |
Yes, they're a good vet - keep going back
|     | 43 | 61.43% | |
No, eventhough they're a good vet you shouldn't go on principle
|    | 16 | 22.86% | |
I can't make up my mind!
|    | 11 | 15.71% |
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27-Feb-07, 08:16 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue  sounds to me like there is another incompetent ven handler out there, shouldnt be keeping, handling or doing courses if he cant safely handle a hot herp. simple as that imo. |
I think we were all incompetent at one stage, sure its fine to practice with pythons, but as you would know pythons are nothing like elapids to handle. |
27-Feb-07, 08:17 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | The proceedure is legal Phoenix if it was illegal Ray Hoser would have been in jail for 10 count's of the proceedure.
__________________
There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree.  |
27-Feb-07, 08:17 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | | dosnt matter to me what its for, imo its a sign of incompetence, if you havnt got the balls to handle a ven as its ment to be, dont handle them at all. simple |
27-Feb-07, 08:18 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Sep-06 Location: BLUE MOUNTAINS Age: 32 | | | | I'd still use the vet but maybe let my thoughts be known on the issue. As for the whole venemoid issue Dogs bite pepole so if i was to pull out all there teeth to stop the risk would that be ok ?
Hell no so why should elpaids have there venom glands removed so pepole learn to handle them.No one is forced to handle venemous reptiles and they should be fully aware of the risks before they even contemplate it JMO |
27-Feb-07, 08:20 PM
|  | Rough-Scale Addict Subscriber | Join Date: Oct-05 Location: Queensland | | | | Firstly can I say that if you lived closer Dr. Brown I'd be seeing you LOL - you and your dam Glasshouse lifestyle :-P LOL.. She has always struck me as being quite competent and up to date with all aspects of procedures. She is also fast gaining a reputation as a herp vet of sorts. I did mention that I found the practice unsavoury which she seemed surprised at generally. She also was attempting to explain the fact that these animals would be used for courses - so it was like she was justifying the surgery by the fact that she might be saving someone from a envenomation. I hardly see this as an adequate justification... |
27-Feb-07, 08:25 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | | phoenix,- thats no excusse at all to remove venom glands, theres plenty of small hard to handle non-dangerous elapids that people can gain handling experiance with.
Besides redbellies, tigers and copperheads are all normally fairly easy species to control, browns and taipans can be another matter, but like ive already said, its down to wether or not they have the balls to do it or not, the need to remove venom glands in hot herps just tells me that they dont have the balls and should NOT be doing it.
Cant get any more simple than that. |
27-Feb-07, 08:30 PM
| | | | I would rather my elapids with their glands intact...but i can also see the benifts to them not. |
27-Feb-07, 08:33 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | True Blue I have my DMP and if it came down to it and I was trying to train people I would rather start them training on a venomoid than some of the wild's I remove. The way they move and prep for a strike is far different. I have no fear of removing ven's, but for safety in training people I would profer the a venomoid. And what long term damage does it do the Ven, none.
__________________
There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree. |
27-Feb-07, 08:33 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-06 Location: SE QLD Age: 23 | | | | I agree with TB. If you ain't got the gonads, then don't touch the vens. I don't think it is right removing venom glands from a snake, they are there for a reason and thats that, Like someone else said wiht the pulling of teeth in dogs, sometimes it is not right to just go and "FIX" something designed by nature. As to whether you should stay wiht the vet. You might have a problem wiht the procedure and that is ok. But your vet is she good? If so then to me your answer should be pretty clear, stay with her, if she is good to you and your animals then that is the first thing you have to worry about. You have already let her know you don't agree with what she has agreed to do, make that the end of it. While she is good to you and your animals then stick with it IMO.
Cheers
__________________ 
2 Boodarie Womas
2 B&G Jungle Pythons
1 B&W Jungle
2 BHP's
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27-Feb-07, 08:49 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Mar-06 Location: Brisbane Age/Gender: 23  | | | | Why does it matter if your vet does something you dont like yourself? its none of your business and doesnt effect you in any real way. If you extend this type of thinking you wouldnt be able to deal with anyone, as almost everyone will probably do something you dont agree with.
I find it both disturbing and amusing how ppl think herpetology/reptile keeping is about "having balls" to freehandle snakes. |
27-Feb-07, 09:11 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | | sorry mayo but i totally disagree, train them with what they are going to come across in the wild not in a surgery.
Redbellies are a good starter to practice on hots with anyway. |
27-Feb-07, 09:12 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | | Nothing to do with having balls to free handle snakes chris, your way off the mark there mate.! |
27-Feb-07, 09:19 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue sounds to me like there is another incompetent ven handler out there, shouldnt be keeping, handling or doing courses if he cant safely handle a hot herp. simple as that imo. | 100% agree. If you don't have the confidence to handle em in their natural state (and not saying I do either by any stretch) - leave the bloody things alone! |
27-Feb-07, 09:24 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-05 Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by cris Why does it matter if your vet does something you dont like yourself? its none of your business and doesnt effect you in any real way. If you extend this type of thinking you wouldnt be able to deal with anyone, as almost everyone will probably do something you dont agree with. | Would you happily see a relationship counseller that's beats his/her spouse and take the advice seriously and with respect??? What else are they willing to do????
Venomoid surgery is frowned upon as an unneccessary and unethical surgical act in every civilised veterinary community - others get away with it because they are not governed by veterinary bodies and can only be convicted if they are caught red-handed. For a vet to gleefully admit that they do the surgery, which has no grounds in medical benefit at all, tells me they are not thinking of the animals welfare as their first priority. I have been approached numerous times to do the surgery and most individuals, once rejected, see why its a crappy thing to do to a snake. |
27-Feb-07, 09:28 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | True Blue Quote
"Besides redbellies, tigers and copperheads are all normally fairly easy species to control, browns and taipans can be another matter, but like ive already said, its down to wether or not they have the balls to do it or not, the need to remove venom glands in hot herps just tells me that they dont have the balls and should NOT be doing it.
Cant get any more simple than that."
Followed By
"Nothing to do with having balls to free handle snakes chris, your way off the mark there mate.!"
So which is it True Blue?
Red Bellies are good to train with, I'll happily free hand them be having a venomoid Coastal Tiapan would be far better to practice on as they are so unpredictable.
__________________
There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree. | | |
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