 Recent Herp Discussion | | | | | | | | Online Users: 181 | | 109 members and 72 guests | | 888lowndes888, adbacus, alex_c, andyscott, antaresia childreni, appleton, baxtor, beeman, benshelley, blading, bowenarrow, Brigsy, Bugsy, bundy_zigg, C'baoth, carkat, CassM, choppy, Chris.j, colt08, Dan19, Daniel_Penrith, Dave94, DA_GRIZ, dougydoug, dpeica, dukyboi, Dusty62, Elibum, fine_jungles, FNQ_Snake, FROGGIESrCUTEo_O, GARTHNFAY, Glider, grimbeny, herpsrule, Hetty, hilly, hozy6, ihaveherps, J-L-L, jase_ale, Jason, jay76, jimmyd, Jonno from ERD, Jorgo, junglepython2, kaidro, kakariki, Kurto, LadySnake, Leezel73, Lewy, liberty, lizzardboi, lizzy_reptile, lovey, lurker_sp, male@mynet.net.au, MatE, mattmc, Matty.B, midnightserval, missllamathuen, mistymtn, mysnakesau, nook171, oddball, paleoherp, pythonguy26, rash, reptilegirl_jordan, rhett, rowlz, scorps, serpenttongue, ShaneBlack, shinglebackFREAK, Simple, slayer, slip_phreak, smeejason, snake101, Snakeaddict, snakes01, sockbat, Spikie wanna cricket, spooky, SPOTTEDMAC, stripes, tfor2, Tolly, Tristis, trogdor1988, Tsidasa, Twiggz, VixenBabe, w3ap0n, warren63, wheen, whiteyluvsrum, zeke, zoocam | | |
View Poll Results: Would you consider still seeing this vet after the venomoid revelation? | |
Yes, they're a good vet - keep going back
|     | 43 | 61.43% | |
No, eventhough they're a good vet you shouldn't go on principle
|    | 16 | 22.86% | |
I can't make up my mind!
|    | 11 | 15.71% |
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27-Feb-07, 09:29 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender:  | | | | ps: I voted that I can't make up my mind. People do plenty of stupid things for money - even bright, intelligent and gifted ones. No point giving your animals second rate attention because of someones differing values. |
27-Feb-07, 09:35 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | All these comparisens have nothing to do with the subject. It is not illegal, it's not frowned upon by the vetinary comunity, as long as there are reasonable grounds to perform the proceedure. There are benefit's to the snake if used for exabitions and displays. Rather than the use of pinning tool's etc the snake can be free handed. Better for all concerned.
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There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree.  |
27-Feb-07, 09:49 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: May-06 Location: NSW | | | | Not frowned on? A herp vet just posted twice and said it is considered unethical, how can you say it's not frowned on? |
27-Feb-07, 09:55 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: redy-lands Age/Gender: 17 | | | | if its not your snake than there shouldnt be a problem, as long as he/she is doing a good a good job with yours |
27-Feb-07, 10:01 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Dec-03 Location: Seaford, Victoria | | | | You have an obligation to report the vet to the appropriate vet authority in your state. From my discussions with other vets the procedure is illegal for a vet to perform without a valid medical reasons. Making the snakes easier to handle is not a valid reason.
I personally wound not use the vet again unless the well being of my animals was at stake.
Regards David |
27-Feb-07, 10:03 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | One vet does not make a consincious.
__________________
There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree. |
27-Feb-07, 10:19 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-05 Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayo  One vet does not make a consincious. | No, but the recent discussion by the Australian Veterinary Association Special Interest Group on Exotic animal Medicine (with 180 + members) determined it to be unethical
p.s. ever considered learning to spell |
27-Feb-07, 10:22 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayo Better for all concerned. | Except the snake - and that's the point I'm afraid. |
27-Feb-07, 10:26 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Brisbane | | | The thought of removing venom glands make me puke
Human beings must tamper with natures masterpiece to safisfy their feeble egos
also....confidentiality has been breached if this vet has mentioned to a 3rd party another clients private business
Just my thoughts
Sandee 
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Nothing great is ever acheived without enthusiasm - Emerson-
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27-Feb-07, 10:38 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | O.k didn't hear that from Australian Veterinary Association Special Interest Group on Exotic animal Medicine, but from the Vet's I have discussed it with seem to think it wasn't so bad. I haven't read anything with any factual baisis against it yet but if you have any please feel free to E-mail it to me. Yes my spelling is bad but I don't feel the need to be to accurate on a chat forum, and what ever I type the first time is how I leave it. If you find it that offensive skip my posts.
Moosenoose, it is better for the snake in the long term as pinning etc is not required. Exhabition snakes are pinned etc, if you could just use bare hands wouldn't that be more comfortable for the snake.
__________________
There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree. |
27-Feb-07, 10:41 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Apr-05 Location: Perth WA | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue dosnt matter to me what its for, imo its a sign of incompetence, if you havnt got the balls to handle a ven as its ment to be, dont handle them at all. simple | What's ball got to do with handling Vens TB. Its reasonably well know that you are far more likely to be bitten by a snake (venomous or not) if you haven't had (much) experience in handling them - hardly something that balls will help you with (just might mean you get bitten quicker).
I think your comment on incompetence pretty much sums up the argument for using venomoids in training courses. My guess is that people attending the handling course are attending to get competence not bitten.
Sten |
27-Feb-07, 10:51 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-03 Location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayo Moosenoose, it is better for the snake in the long term as pinning etc is not required. Exhabition snakes are pinned etc, if you could just use bare hands wouldn't that be more comfortable for the snake. |
I know what you're saying Mayo, but you're sort of missing my point. We don't need to display these animals in this manner. If people genuinely want to see them, view them behind glass! It's like playing with a toothless tiger - it really isn't ethical.
The pro-venomoid group always tells us of the benefits - but not the logical reasoning behind having to do it in the first place. |
27-Feb-07, 11:03 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Aug-06 Location: Toowoomba-ish | | | | I think Stencorp hit it on the head. There will always be snake handling exhabitions, people want to see them live , and handled.
Quote: Moosenoose
"The pro-venomoid group always tells us of the benefits - but not the logical reasoning behind having to do it in the first place."
The benefit's are the logical reason, and that is the point.
Humans have part's removed regularly, appendix, tonsils, wizdom teeth. A friend of mine had 1 bad wizdom tooth and while they removed that one they took the rest. If it's not needed, and your not going to notice it is gone where is the harm. I can see plenty of benefits, and no draw backs.
__________________
There's a fly in my soup............................R/E/A/D
We all have a right to an opinion. I will listen to your's, and please do the same for me, but if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree. |
27-Feb-07, 11:39 PM
|  | Rough-Scale Addict Subscriber | Join Date: Oct-05 Location: Queensland | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by cris Why does it matter if your vet does something you dont like yourself? its none of your business and doesnt effect you in any real way. | Well it does matter yes frankly.. No it doesn't affect me in a direct way but it does affect my level of respect that I had for her previously... I did hope that this thread wouldn't turn into another venomoid debate given the fact that no-one ever agrees on it. I was more interested in the variety of opinion regarding me sticking with this vet given my feelings towards voiding... I have ultimately decided to stick with this vet as they do do a great job with my herps. I will however endeavour suggest to the vet that this practice may not be ethical and maybe that said vet should reconsider doing the procedure...
Last edited by PremierPythons; 27-Feb-07 at 11:49 PM.
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27-Feb-07, 11:45 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Dec-06 Location: CAIRNS | | | voted 
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i dont care if youcant read my writing theres no need to hijack my posts to tell every one
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