Natural Breeding

[Jungletrans]

My Darwin female was put with a male sometime ago .Now l am asuming that because she hasnt been feed for a month , has had a couple of craps and is getting fatter every day that she is either gravid or getting out to sneak feeds on her own . Having never bred reptiles before l have been thinking about letting her hatch the eggs naturaly . l am not concerned about the money but l would like to do the best for her . What sort of laying box should l supply for her to use .

[sxc_celly]

Honestly i wouldnt go natural. Ive heard its ALOT harder on the mother. They have to care for the eggs the entire time and do not eat during this period. Also they kind of shake 24-7 to keep the eggs warm which takes ALOT of energy. Also they should not be bred the following year if you let them go naturally. Also the hatch rate is far less is you go naturally at least 30-50% less hatch rate ive heard. So your better off letting her lay then taking them off her and incubating them yourself. You will get a much better hatch rate, she will be able to feed and recouporate, she'll be able to breed next year and she will be alot less stressed. Thats my 2 cents.

[ponybug]

Originally Posted by sxc_celly

Honestly i wouldnt go natural. Ive heard its ALOT harder on the mother. They have to care for the eggs the entire time and do not eat during this period. Also they kind of shake 24-7 to keep the eggs warm which takes ALOT of energy. Also they should not be bred the following year if you let them go naturally. Also the hatch rate is far less is you go naturally at least 30-50% less hatch rate ive heard. So your better off letting her lay then taking them off her and incubating them yourself. You will get a much better hatch rate, she will be able to feed and recouporate, she'll be able to breed next year and she will be alot less stressed. Thats my 2 cents.

ummm, what do you base this info on, how many times have you bred, i'm sorry but you are so wrong it's not even funny,

the snakes don't shake 24/7, come on, how many millions of years have they been incubating their eggs in the wild, the mothers do come off the eggs to drink, i've also heard they can be fed when they are off the nest, not all, but some do, where did you get the 30 to 50% less hatch rate from, thats wrong, and where did you get they can't breed the next year,

i've never let any of my females incubate themselves yet, but i'm hoping to let some this season, but i had a friend in sydney whos coastal incubated her own eggs, she had 100% hatch rate and the female layed 2 years in a row, with 100% hatching rate both years, the only egg that didn't hatch was 2 slugs (infertile eggs) , now i'm not sure if she is breeding them this year, but if she does it will be the third in a row,
also indicus on this site is a very well known breeder and i personly have a pair of his hypo bredli that he let the f/ms incubate them selves, he posted pics a couple years ago of the mother and hatchys sticking their heads out from under her, he got from memery 54 hatchlings from 2 f/ms, thats 26 each, not bad for 2 first time mothers,

also you will find a few overseas breeders have started letting the mothers incubate the eggs themselves with good results,

i'm not saying it isn't harder for the mother, but it won't hurt her in any way and if you feed her up well she will breed the next year, there is no reason she won't,

[Jungletrans]

Thanks for that , l think l will let her do it . She is a big stong healthy snake and a voracious eater . I know she can handle it .

[mrsshep77]

We are making the big jump and letting our female incubate them herself this year too (as long as she breeds) and as long as your f/m is in good healthy condition there is no reason why she can't do it! As Ponybug stated it's a natural function for them and who would know better how to successfully incubate the eggs than the mother herself??!!!!
Good luck Jungletrans and keep us posted on the progress.... as will I......
Cheers,
Mell

[cris]

Just wondering what is the point?
There is an excellent article on the snake ranch website about incubating eggs.

[ponybug]

the point might be your not setup to incubate your eggs, and you would be surprised how many people have lost full clutches of eggs due to incubator stuff ups, sometimes it's good to see it done the natural way,

everybody to their own, my point was the info given wasn't right........

[reptilegirl_jordan]

if she is all healthy and strong let her do her own thing,its not like she has a little hot box made outta a fridge to put her eggs in,out in the wild,she should handle it fine,its natural for her,i dont see why she couldnt do it every year!

[serpenttongue]

Jungletrans, if you do allow your female to maternally incubate her eggs then i suggest you give her a solid box (with a lid on top for easy access)filled with grass cuttings from the lawn mower and mix this up with sphagnum moss. Make sure she has a thick layer of it (10cm is good) so that eggs wont become adhered to the floor of the box if she decides to push the grass to the sides during nest making/egglaying. The nesting material must be dry. I make sure it's bone dry. Any moisture in the substrate can affect the eggs that are in contact with it. Eggs from the bottom of the clutch may grow mould and die and this will spread to all the eggs.

Also have this box at the cool end of the enclosure to avoid possible overheating. It's better to have the female working to heat the eggs rather than the nesting box being up the warm end and the female not doing much. When the box is down the cool end the female has to leave the box to bask under the heat globe and then return to transfer that heat to the eggs, which is what you want. Shivering isn't 24/7. Most shivering is done at night when temps drop, with sparodic shivering throughout the day. They will also leave the eggs to drink and some females will except food during maternal incubation, as ponybug said.

I personally would not advise maternal incubation. It can be very hard to observe the eggs regulary and if there are some decaying eggs then they cannot be dealt with easily when a python is wrapped tightly around them. Some females that are incubating for the first time can sometimes abandon the eggs as well. They can also sometimes tip the clutch over when unwinding from the eggs to bask. These are RARE occurances, but can still happen. I suggest you make a cheap incubator using a polystyrene box, microclimate dimming thermostat and a digital thermometer.

[bitey]

no advise from me mate because i have not a clue as im new to this but whatever you choose to do good luck with the eggs

[pike1]

Maternal incubation is not natural in an enclosure,the mother has to lay where you want her to,not a perfect spot she has picked.You can put a laying box in and half the time she will lay them somewhere else like under the paper.In the wild she will travel till she finds everything she needs ,eg temp,humidity and security.In captivity you have to provide it all, so you have to have the encloser warm for her and the eggs,you will have to spray the eggs for humidity and provide her a secure spot so she isn't overly stressed.So in reality aren't you just incubating the eggs with her wrapped around them.Save her the stress, if you don't have an incubator put them in a plastic tub in a cage that holds a stable temp,seen lots of people do it that way.

[sxc_celly]

ponybug - sorry i didnt mean to offend or anything, my info wastn based off my own experience, but someone i knew who bred bhps for years and years - i was going to buy a pair off him. He sounded like he knew what he was talking about having bred them successfully. Sorry to hear he's wrong - what a twit lol - i never bought any off him. Ponybug youve had the experience - what would you honestly do?

[Jungletrans]

As l'm doing this for the experience , not for the money it doesnt matter so much if the eggs fail . It would be sad but such is life . Everything l have read about incubation , from the stressed out mother to the constant attention to detail makes me want to try it the natural way . As far as a cage can be . Will keep a photo record for those interested .

[The-Guy]

if hse lays on top of the heat mat(if you have one), may be a good idea to move it...