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15-Dec-07, 01:43 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: melbourne australia Age: 45 | | |
I had discussions with mates about snakebites, dry bites, etc and it'd be
interesting to see what you think.
If milking snakes for venom production or similar (as in large elapids),
what percentage fail to yield any venom and what percentage yield venom.
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15-Dec-07, 01:53 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Sep-06 Location: Melbourne Age: 24 | | | |
good question, i have wondered the same thing ssssnakeman.
i would think that it could start to get quite difficult encouraging some of the snakes to bite and envenomate the jars after they have been in captivity for a while.
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15-Dec-07, 03:03 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: melbourne australia Age: 45 | | | |
Thats what we were saying to.
I spose its all about the pressure that is applied by the thumb and forefinger of the milker.
So if you were to use the right amount of pressure the snake has no choice but to deliver the load right...
Or can they dry bite no matter how much pressure is applied..??
This might be the wrong forum for this question.
Last edited by ssssnakeman; 15-Dec-07 at 03:09 PM.
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15-Dec-07, 07:14 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Nov-06 Location: melbourne VIC Age/Gender: 27  | | | |
very interesting topic... i would love to know the answer... surely some people on this forum would have some more information to add?
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15-Dec-07, 07:16 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-05 Location: the land down under | | | |
ditto...! anyone out thre know ?
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15-Dec-07, 07:21 PM
|  | Bendy! Sponsor | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane Gender:  | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ssssnakeman  I had discussions with mates about snakebites, dry bites, etc and it'd be
interesting to see what you think.
If milking snakes for venom production or similar (as in large elapids),
what percentage fail to yield any venom and what percentage yield venom. | Milking a snake is far different to a snake biting something. With milking, you manipulate the venom glands and can effectively squeeze out 95%+ of the venom. Coupled with the fact that they are already mightily aggitated from been head grabbed, it really isn't a good comparison to snake bite.
There were two Tiger Snakes that were impossible to milk, though. We all had a go, but they both would not produce a single drop of venom for us. Eventually those snakes were donated to a wildlife park because they were of no use.
On a side note, it seems that snakes that are regularly milked actually increase the size of their venom glands, and therefore the size of their yields. This is only a hypothesis, as it hasn't been fully researched.
__________________ Jonno Lucas - Educational Reptile Displays www.educationalreptiledisplays.com.au
Specialising in venomous snake relocation and husbandry courses, basic and advanced reptile husbandry courses, wildlife seminars, interactive birthday parties, media opportunities and wildlife consultancy. 0413 128 248 |
15-Dec-07, 07:30 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: melbourne australia Age: 45 | | | |
Thanks Jonno, so generallly speaking , when you force an elapid to bite it will deliver.
Very interesting about the two tigers that didnt though.
So thats two snakes of the 300 or so at venom supply that didnt produce venom?
Is it possible that a snake can be born with out venom or the glands to produce it?
If a large elapid bites a mouse, and hangs on for several seconds, with
both fangs through the skin, what is the likelihood of the rodent not
being envenomated?
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15-Dec-07, 07:38 PM
|  | Sponsor | Join Date: May-04 Location: Pilbara Region W.A. | | | |
Then the penny dropped, they checked their record book, and to their horror, those two were bought from Hoser.
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15-Dec-07, 07:41 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: melbourne australia Age: 45 | | |  lol dave, but seriously...
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15-Dec-07, 07:51 PM
| | Bendy! Sponsor | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ssssnakeman Thanks Jonno, so generallly speaking , when you force an elapid to bite it will deliver.
Very interesting about the two tigers that didnt though.
So thats two snakes of the 300 or so at venom supply that didnt produce venom?
Is it possible that a snake can be born with out venom or the glands to produce it?
If a large elapid bites a mouse, and hangs on for several seconds, with
both fangs through the skin, what is the likelihood of the rodent not
being envenomated? |
Sometimes a snake will deliver the majority of its venom as soon as it bites the beaker, but other times you have to literally open their mouth, put the beaker in, and then massage the venom glands to get the to yield anything. We think the two Tigers may have had some sort of medical problem, as they were both wild caught at the same approximate spot at the same approximate time.
I am guessing a snake can be born without venom glands, as it is possible that any organism can be born without any of the body parts.
Snakes have the ability to control whether they inject venom or not. This is evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of defensive bites are dry, as they don't want to waste their only hunting "tool" on defending themselves. Personally, I don't think the majority of venomous snakes realise that their venom has the ability to kill any potential predators. In reality it is a poor defence system anyway, as it only takes effect a significant amount of time after the altercation. Most animal defence mechanisms are designed to work immediately, to save the animal from the danger that it is facing at that point in time.
Some "intelligent" species of snakes, like Coastal Taipans, will always inject venom when delivering a defensive bite, and will actually increase the amount delivered every time it has to bite after the first strike.
__________________ Jonno Lucas - Educational Reptile Displays www.educationalreptiledisplays.com.au
Specialising in venomous snake relocation and husbandry courses, basic and advanced reptile husbandry courses, wildlife seminars, interactive birthday parties, media opportunities and wildlife consultancy. 0413 128 248 | |
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