Aussie Pythons and Snakes

mungus · #31 31-Dec-06, 06:55 PM

Ricko,
I know were your coming from.
My 2 snakes [ refer to photo's in earlier thread ] are actually " Port Macquarie Diamonds ".
The female was bred by Greg Hollis - she was the best one out of 18. [ sold her at 15 months of age due to down sizeing ].
Refer to "mysnakeau" thread in Australian snakes - I still refer to them as intergrades !!
Are they ??????
What do you honestly think ???

Ricko · #32 31-Dec-06, 06:55 PM

dont think there worth more than $100 at the most but thats me. i would be buying pairs of more pure animals but thats just me. you got yourself a nice looking snake and i hope it goes well for you but if you do breed with it make sure you label hatchy's as HYBRIDS.

Ricko · #33 31-Dec-06, 06:58 PM

I think greg hollis's are pure intergrades not crossed in captivity which are totally different (dont know the man myself or what he does but from all i have read he breeds pure port mac's) if you breed a diamond to anything other than a full diamond then your creating HYBRIDS but thats my thoughts and as long as people label them truely and not as pure anythings then thats fine but i wouldnt do it just my opinion.

mungus · #34 31-Dec-06, 07:02 PM

python blue,
I'd sell them for what people are prepared to pay for them.
Letting them know ALL the snakes history etc.
I'd pay good dollars the right Port. Mac Male for my female.

mungus · #35 31-Dec-06, 07:10 PM

Ricko,
so a Port. Mac Diamond in a natural intergrade, but it's still a intergrade never the less.
So whats the difference natural & captive bred intergrades ??
and the same can be said for natural & captive bred Diamonds ??

Ricko · #36 31-Dec-06, 07:11 PM

but thats the whole thing they arent Port macs they are captive hybrids and i hope they stay labeled as such. Thats it on this point but i must say it is a nice looking snake and as long as your happy than thats the main thing.

Rick

Ricko · #37 31-Dec-06, 07:13 PM

The whole thing is they are not intergrades they are hybrids. Intergrades are naturally occuring compared to being placed together in the same cage just to get some hatchies therefore creating hybrids. Is that not correct?

mungus · #38 31-Dec-06, 07:15 PM

Thanks for your honest input Ricko, we will agree to disagree on some pionts.
Happy New Year to ya,
mungus

Australis · #39 31-Dec-06, 07:17 PM

Hi all,

Basically a true natural "intergrade" as they are known by some, is a locality form or Carpet python, not a result of Diamond pythons breeding with Coastal Carpet python.

Its all well and good to say you will sell hybrid offspring as such, but considering you started this thread as "our new diamond" i have my doubts.

You dont have to breed everything you own, i think if you breed that to a "pure" diamond the offspring would look very much like "pure diamonds" and in the end they would end up being called "pure".

Call a spade a spade dont call it a shovel aye

Ricko · #40 31-Dec-06, 07:17 PM

Do you not agree mate? Whats your opinion on it all? just for interests sake.

Cheers have a good nye
Ricko

JandC_Reptiles · #41 31-Dec-06, 07:28 PM

Why breed from them at all?
You may be honest about their background (not showing this in your description so far) or may sell them as pets only, but who is to say the future owners will be as forthcoming with the truth? Hybrids are nothing but a pollution to the hobby that creates confusement & annoyance.

Do yourself and every other keeper in Aus a favour & purchase pure animals if you intend on breeding. Don't even bother selling it, keep it as a pet only till it dies or cull it yourself. The less cross breeds on the market the better IMO.

mungus · #42 31-Dec-06, 07:29 PM

Well, my opinion is that if you were breeding Port Mac's as Greg Hollis was / is, then I classify them as pure Port Mac Diamonds - period.
If begin to dabble & start throwing 2 different species together, that would NOT naturally breed
in the wild, then I would definately call it a " hybrid " !!!

mungus · #43 31-Dec-06, 07:33 PM

J&C reptiles,
Are'nt Port. Mac. Diamonds snakes found in the wild ?
So how's it a HYBRID ???

Australis · #44 31-Dec-06, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mungus

J&C reptiles,
Are'nt Port. Mac. Diamonds snakes found in the wild ?
So how's it a HYBRID ???

No one has called a Port Mac a hybrid.

Basically, you cant put a Coastal and a Diamond together and call the offspring "intergrade(s)" comparable to a port mac locality carpet.

Port Mac Carpets ARE NOT the result of natural crossing, they are just a locality form of Carpet python.

JandC_Reptiles · #45 31-Dec-06, 07:42 PM

Mungus,
Throwing a coastal over a diamond in captivity (even though they may breed together in the wild) won't give you a natural intergrade, or a port mac Diamond as you suggest, it will still be a hybrid, just like a bredli cross jungle. Natural intergrades have been crossbreeding & inbreeding for generations upon generations to the extent of forming an entire new sub-species (according to many) due to evolution. A natural intergrade can not be replicated in captivity by cross breeding the 2 (besides it wouldn't be a natural intergrade if it didn't occur naturally would it lol)

And to maintain Gregs pure line, his intergrades would have to be bred with other pure intergrades from the same locality. You couldn't put one of his intergrades over a Coastal or Diamond and claim them pure imo, because they would then be a "natural intergrade x Coastal or Diamond)

EG: I don't know about labelling them "Port Mac Diamonds" when they are infact "Natural Intergrades" (if thats the case). To me that just proves my above statement that there is confusement & annoyance

Why would they be labelled a pure Diamond local (as thats what I read when I see Port Mac Diamond) when they are naturally cross bred with Coastals? Surely in the same location that there is natural intergrades there may also be pure Diamonds & Coastals? (if they havn't been outbred) So are we to assume that Port Mac Diamonds are ALL tainted with Coastal blood? or not? See the confusement yet?

Label them for what they are.
Hybrids - cross bred in captivity.
Intergrades - naturally occuring in the wild.

Forget any other title for them, port mac diamonds, port mac coastals, port mac carpets isn't a true description imho. Port mac natural intergrade is exactly what they are...