 Recent Herp Discussion | | | | | | | | Online Users: 217 | | 136 members and 81 guests | | ad, adbacus, Adzo, andyh, andymc1970, aussie.snakes, Australis, awesomeherp, bat088, bjpres, buffsmith, bundy, champsey1, channi, chappo, cmclean, coastal-shagg, Coopsta, cougars, CraigP, daniel1234, Danni, dansocks, Dave94, David Evans, DDALDD, disasterpiece7.0, dixilizards, Dmoore, Doc, dogger_009, dragozz, Ducky, edbanger87, eddy9898, GARTHNFAY, Glider, grimjob, Harro, Helikaon, hilly, hobbo, hodges, honga05, itbites, jase75, jessb, jiemoulin, jimmymonsta, jodocast, Jonno from ERD, junglepython2, KaaTom, kakariki, kel, Kersten, kevin07, Kirby, learning, Lesley, lilmonkeyboy, Lonewolf, lrc135, maccabros, malika, maloos, masejake, mat.m, mattmc, mattyandnat, miley_take, Minke, mitchay, monkeyboy, More Morelia, MoreliaMatt, MrBredli, Mudimans, Nagraj, nell68crab, Nephrurus, Niall, Nikki_Elmo, No-two, nonamesleft, notechistiger, ogg666, Oldbeard, palmej, pat_adel, paulw6676, pete12, PilbaraPythons, RealNaja, rednut, reedysreptiles, Reptile_Boy, reptile_mad, Repz, rexs1, Rocket, rosequoll, Sarah24, saratoga, scalesntails, Shanno, Shannon, ShnakeyGirl, Simple, slither, spongebob, star11, Stitched, tenacres1100, tnucasiyetals, Trouble, ttaipan, val46, warren63, Whimsey, whiteyluvsrum, xshadowx, xuereb, xycom, zoocam, _Jas_ | |  | | 
22-Feb-07, 06:57 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-06 Location: newcastle Gender:  | | | | what is an integrade ????
it seems there are some well known herps, as well as some who think they are well known,and some who want to be well known ........ who go around telling young kids at reptile meetings that their pure bred diamond is actually an " integrade " because it has this or has that and these markings are just not quite right ......... what a load of rubbish. - these same people also claim that carpets are found down to coffs harbour - diamonds are found from gosford south to woolongong and anything between gosford and coffs is an " integrade " --evolution happening as we speak -- a snake changing from a carpet to a diamond over a 400 km range --- GARBAGE .....
diamond pythons are allowed to have a slight variation in markings as well as other snakes .......
i have seen a black coloured eastern brown snake before - but didnt go around saying it was an integrade , just because it was a bit different.
so........ where is the scientific evidence .......all you integrade fans....
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22-Feb-07, 06:57 PM
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i am certainly not having 'a go' at Gregs mac diamonds... They look a beautiful python  I just happened to notice the patterning on that individual snake from the link given resembles a possible coastal intergration. certainly i would like to see pics of the one you bought and its gradual growth and development in the future. High yellow Diamonds are very beautiful IMO and somewhat hard to come by a pure bred for cheap. post some pics when you can
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22-Feb-07, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dave8208  it seems there are some well known herps, as well as some who think they are well known,and some who want to be well known ........ who go around telling young kids at reptile meetings that their pure bred diamond is actually an " integrade " because it has this or has that and these markings are just not quite right ......... what a load of rubbish. - these same people also claim that carpets are found down to coffs harbour - diamonds are found from gosford south to woolongong and anything between gosford and coffs is an " integrade " --evolution happening as we speak -- a snake changing from a carpet to a diamond over a 400 km range --- GARBAGE .....
diamond pythons are allowed to have a slight variation in markings as well as other snakes .......
i have seen a black coloured eastern brown snake before - but didnt go around saying it was an integrade , just because it was a bit different.
so........ where is the scientific evidence .......all you integrade fans.... | LoL
i am not a intergrade fan... but how difficult is it becoming to seperate species/sub-species these days? with that many local specific traits etc and potential natural past interbreeding... Who wants to be the taxonomist ? |
22-Feb-07, 07:04 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jul-06 Location: Country NSW Age/Gender: 37 | | | |
I reckon Port Macs should have their own name though. spilota, mcdowelli, chenyei, metcalfei IMO are all just a locale carpet python yet they are classified seperately. If they had their own classification the debate would probably be less confusing, although it wouldn't change the fact people still sell crosses as Port Macs....
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22-Feb-07, 07:04 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: Sydney harbour bridge | | | |
I don,t have any scientific evidence i don,t know for sure what my snake is and the more
i see her the less a want to know....
Take note the latest species list from the NP&W
code t2025 Morelia s mcdowelli / Spillota . Carpet / diamond {natural intergrade }
The only intergrade listed...Is the NP&W a good enough reference ???
Or do we all know so much more ???
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22-Feb-07, 07:06 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jun-06 Location: Central QLD. | | | |
Jessop,
Why are you comparing Greg's animal to a Gosford Diamond?
His animals are NOT from Gosford.
__________________ www.fame.org.au - Foundation for Australia’s Most Endangered Species.
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22-Feb-07, 07:09 PM
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maybe i am totally wrong but the best example of a "pure" diamond i have seen was a pic sent to me by RevDaniel... The snake was pure black, with evenly spaces (small) white rosettes (relevantly) even alomg its body. i also have seen the 'Gosford variety). Same evenly spaced rosettes, but a high yellow marking on 25-30% of scales making the snake look 40% yellow, 40% black, and 20% white, if that...
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22-Feb-07, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Australis Jessop,
Why are you comparing Greg's animal to a Gosford Diamond?
His animals are NOT from Gosford. |
Perhaps you misunderstood my intentions... I was not in fact comparing, only mentioning that the pictures i viewed looked amazingly similar to most Gosfords i have seen. JA!
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22-Feb-07, 07:20 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Jun-06 Location: Central QLD. | | | |
Jessop,
Maybe i misunderstood your pervious posts.
IMO, there is a gradual change in colour/pattern to match the gradual change in enviroment heading south down the coast, which is reflected in the apperance of the animals.
Anyways, no matter what you want to call them or how you think they came to be, one simple fact remains theses a "pure" locality animals.
__________________ www.fame.org.au - Foundation for Australia’s Most Endangered Species.
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22-Feb-07, 07:27 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: May-05 Location: Sydney Gender: | | | |
they are beaut snakes and this labelling confusion will always happen with them....the name 'port mac carpet' is the best one to use it neither states they are coastal or diamond. these snakes are naturally occuring as intergrades because their ranges overlap.
great snakes guys and more pics would be great!
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22-Feb-07, 07:36 PM
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Theres no over lap, why do people think theres an over lap it's just a carpet from port macquarie whats so hard to understand about that.
Thats why the name intergrade should be outlawed it has no place being used with port macs because they are not wild crosses or intergrades.
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22-Feb-07, 10:39 PM
| | Suspended | Join Date: Mar-05 Location: Sydney | | | |
Tell us what ya really think Dave! lol
Totally agree though, I think Diamonds have a MASSIVE variation in them, and that the carpets from Port Maquarie and its surrounds are EITHER a variation of the Diamond, or, popular belief finally starting to come through, they are just a locale specific carpet, just like Nightowl said.
Just because they have a little carpet rosettes or brighter colour people call them crosses, intergrades, whatever. The argument has gone on and will go on forever, see the problem is if NPWS actually put these locale specific carpets on license as a new sub species, everyone with a Diamond/Coastal will put down thats what they own, it will eventually catch up and no one will know what they have, or if the snake they have was a locale specific or man made!
I don't know what the answer is but I just hope that people who DO cross there diamonds and carpets tell buyers that is what they are getting, and the buyers do the same, just like Steve6610 does.
Anyways..
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23-Feb-07, 03:14 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: No where close to u..... Age/Gender: 28 | | | |
sorry to interrupt cos I dont know much abt diamonds, costals or intergrades but must say, the mac's r killers..... If I get in touch with Greg ( I will ) it would b for the blonds...they r awsome........
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01-Mar-07, 07:53 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: Sydney harbour bridge | | | |
Well there we go...I just received confirmation that my snake came from Greg Hollis...
See my post port mac for photos...
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02-Mar-07, 07:50 AM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: NSW | | | |
Settle down. I think the definition of "pure" used by australis is more focussed on the fact that they come from natures own kitchen rather then the brainchild of a breeder intentionally cross breeding diamonds and coastals.
In that case they are a "purely" natural product of the locale where they originate.
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