Questions for QLD breeders??

[norris]

im amazed people are willing to spend big money for a snake at a pet shop that they can get from a private breeder for a third the price.

[geckodan]

Originally Posted by Aussie Python Lover

Yes the pet shops need to make profit but what about the ppl who are selling them they need to make the money on them as well as the shops. To have a pet shop offer $90 for 1 snake then to sell them at $280 I think is unfair. The shop is getting more profit then you are if you sell to pet shops. I will be selling mine via here or other sites im a member of not to any pet shops. Id rather make some money then to not get much at all. JMO...

But thats your choice. From your comments above, you breed for the money. No breeder "needs" to make money. End of story. If I can cover costs by selling a number of animals in one hit to one person without having to deal with 50 tyre kickers, 3 no shows, 5 that pull out at the last minute and 20 that just wan't a pic then thats what you compromise to sell at a lower price.

[Ozzie Python]

You may find that alot of new people buying a reptile for the first time don't know any breeders or any other way to obtain a reptile or what they are looking for so they will pay the money from a pet shop and trust they have bought a good product.

i agree with geckodan, if 90-95 bucks is what they are paying it is not as fair to the breeder as far as profit goes, but it is a conveniance if they buy bulk.

I personally haven't bred yet but i won't be selling to petshops when i do, but that's only my personal preference as i don't trust the shops in my local area's.

[geckodan]

Originally Posted by Ozzie Python

You may find that alot of new people buying a reptile for the first time don't know any breeders or any other way to obtain a reptile or what they are looking for so they will pay the money from a pet shop and trust they have bought a good product.

i agree with geckodan, if 90-95 bucks is what they are paying it is not as fair to the breeder as far as profit goes, but it is a conveniance if they buy bulk.

I personally haven't bred yet but i won't be selling to petshops when i do, but that's only my personal preference as i don't trust the shops in my local area's.

I only deal with 2 shops. These are shops that in my opinion will do the right thing by the animals because they asked my advice before setting up their reptile section in the first place. The majority of other I don't approach because I don't like the way they work. On the other hand, I have been asked by a franchise group "why I won't sell to them". I replied that I didn't think they had the setup and knowledge to do justice to my stock. Now I am stuck doing training courses for their staff. Bugger.

[NCHERPS]

Thanks again guys for your feedback.

I know some of you have already commented on the questions below, but for those that haven't , but have voted, or to those that would like to comment more, I ask the following:

Do those that have said that they wouldn't sell there offspring to a Petshop, feel that way because they don't believe that the shops staff would look after the reptiles, or is it because you feel that you wouldn't be paid a fair price for your offspring? Maybe a combination of both in some cases? Or is it because as a few have already stated, they breed species not allowed to be sold in pet shops?

Are QLD breeders allowed to advertise captive bred reptiles for sale in Newspapers, shop windows etc??

Petshops do have large overheads in many cases, alot more than private breeders, so they can justify a reasonable price compared to that of the going price in the private breeder arena, however some will always charge more than others.
If the shops that charge high prices grow then obviously the customers are happy to pay the price, they will not last the distance if there service and animals are not good.
High priced shops normally make a good profit from beginners into the hobby, they draw newcomers into the hobby, sometimes selling them things they don't require necessarily, but you get this in all types of shops, not just petshops.
There customers will probably remain loyal for 6 mth's or so, unless they start looking at more reptiles, in which case they may decide to shop around and view the Net to see what else is out there.
You can never underestimate the power of a high priced store with good products and good staff knowledge though, these businesses last the distance, and good luck to them to.

As for all the stores that are just in it for a quick buck at the expense of the animals, well I am sure they won't last, and it is up to everybody that visits to report them to the authorities if the conditions are not suitable.
I do believe that the owners of pet stores should have a requirement to have at least one full time member of staff properly trained up by an experienced person or organization and care sheets should be mandatory and free to every individual that purchases a reptile.
Gecko Dan, sounds like you have a bit of a training task on your hands, good on you for taking the time to train these shops and there staff.

Neil

[Magpie]

Originally Posted by NCHERPS

Are QLD breeders allowed to advertise captive bred reptiles for sale in Newspapers, shop windows etc??


Neil

Yes.

[Glider]

I've just had my first successful gecko breeding season and I'm looking forward to having lots of babies next season, which means I've had a big think about how I'm going to rehome the surplus ones.

Personally I'd rather sell privately to a hobbiest so that I can make sure I can at least talk to the person and get some insight into what kind of home the animal is going to, and give some specific advice on the care of that animal, so I know I've done the best I can for it. But it can be a huge hassle, so if I was in a position where I couldnt find private buyers or didn't want the hassle, as a 2nd option I'd probably sell to one of the specialist reptile shops that are run by enthusiasts themselves (eg Just Reptiles or Everything Reptile). At least then I know that the shop owner is knowledgeable, will take good care of the animal while it is in their shop, and will do their best to make sure the buyer has the right care instructions.

My personal experience:
I hadn't kept gecko's before and didnt know anything about their care, but I saw a pair of Knobtails in a normal petshop and fell in love with them. I asked the petshop loads of questions about their husbandry, and bought them the next day. I followed the advice of the petshop and bought up big there - the gecko's were $540 the pair (for normal knobtail gecko's - $OUCH$ in hindsight! ), and I spent about $200 on an enclosure and all kinds of accessories, some of which are still in the packet. I walked away with everything I needed and all my questions answered, and thought everything was great.
The advice the petshop gave was extensive, detailed and they had a good answer for everything I asked them, so I followed it. Problem was, they'd given me great instructions on how to house thick-tailed geckos not knob-tailed geckos. For those who don't know, in very basic terms the difference is between a high-humidity, cool, peatmoss filled enclosure and a dry, hot and sandy enclosure. You couldn't really get much more different.
Within about 2 weeks my female knobtail was showing signs of serious distress, which lead me to this site for advice, then quite expensive vet treatment for a respiratory infection for another two weeks. I was very very lucky she pulled through, and is now breeding happily in the renovated enclosure.

I have to admit that my love for geckos probably wouldn't have started if it weren't for a normal petshop having a pair of Knobtail geckos for sale, however the simple but serious mistake in care advice I was given led to weeks of suffering and near death of the animals they sold me.
Thats why I wouldn't sell to a normal petshop.

[S.D.]

The reason I would not sell my any of my snakes to a pet shop is purely and simply because I do not feel that they have the ability to look after the snakes and in doing so then offer their customers a snake that may have health problems due to their lack of knowledge and sometimes lack of time and effort. Is this worth the increased interest they create by selling snakes and reptile products? Any health problems relating to a snake are usually very long to surface and very long to improve if they do at all and selling snakes with possible health problems due to the aforementioned will end up putting more people off snakes and reptiles in the long run.

I am not on a crusade to slander pet shops as I genuinely have nothing to gain from it and opinions similar to mine have certainly been put out there already. For example open any “Intro to Pythons” type book and go straight to the “Purchasing a New Python Section”. I am fairly sure one of the first things you will read is “Try to avoid pet shops and purchase your new python from an established local breeder”. This is the same with pretty much any animal. All “how to guides” will warn people to steer clear of pet shop bought animals.

I don’t think price has much to do with most people’s decision not to sell to pet stores. Snakes, like any other animal will usually be purchased from a breeder at a reasonable price for both parties and then sold at a much higher cost to include profit and overheads. That’s the way a pet shops works. Sometimes they will be able to get an animal for a lot cheaper from a breeder as sometimes a pet shop is a breeder’s last option when trying to sell off their remaining animals for the year. But if all a pet shop ever did was offer very low prices to breeders, then they would have no animals to sell. Compare any animal or pet related item’s price to that offered by a breeder or wholesaler – you’d be surprised just how much a pet shop can and will make.

Like I said I’m not claiming pet shops are absolutely appalling or that all pet shops have no idea how to care for a snake as I am aware that some here in Queensland do and can offer their customer an animal in peak condition as they were cared for properly. All I’m saying is that the vast majority of pet shops should lift their current game or get out – it’s that simple. In my opinion a breeder will always be the best place to purchase a snake from but there will always be room for pet shops for people who don’t have the time or ambition to search out snakes on the internet or from “The Trading Post” for example. But that still doesn’t mean the pet shops should prey on these people and not seek to improve amount of knowledge and time they currently have to care for there animals – but I suppose in the end a pet shop sees everything it sells as just a product (well most do anyway).

[Sdaji]

Originally Posted by NCHERPS

As for all the stores that are just in it for a quick buck at the expense of the animals, well I am sure they won't last, and it is up to everybody that visits to report them to the authorities if the conditions are not suitable.
Neil

In Victoria we've had it clearly demonstrated for many years now that shops which have no interest in anything but money can make plenty of money over a long period of time and that multiple people reporting the horrific cruelty which goes on does nothing, or next to it (at least in the legal climate of Victoria). Some of the pet shops down here which are most heavily involved in poaching, cruelty, exotics, etc have some of the best reputations. Even those which have actually managed to go far enough to have bad reputations over many years are still bringing in heaps on money selling poached animals which are literally close to death.

As with pet shops which sell dogs, cats, fish, etc, one of the best ways for a reptile pet shop to make sales is to mistreat their animals; it encourages well intentioned but misguided people to purchase the sickly animals to 'save' them. Unfortunately, this practise does a lot more harm than good, the cruelty is funded, the shop owner buys more animals, the animals are mistreated and thus sold and the cycle continues and expands. Watching this happen year after year is absolutely heart breaking.

[mattjoe]

If the petshops are not paying breeders decent prices maybe the breeders/keepers should push harder for commercial licences of their own?
The petshops are well represented in the push to behave commercially but the keepers aren't.

m

[Pythons Rule]

Hi I am with simone but in the case of a mate of mine trying to sell some of there snakes up here in darwin and having no luck disided to find out how much the pet shop up here would pay, I wouldn't sell to this mob due to the fact that they said they would pay $70 ea for there spotted hatchies and have to find out what the going rate for an adult olive would be first. well after they've payed more than that a few years ago from them for the parents of these babies they told them to go away, I wouldn't blame them. they payed about $280 for there two from them so you could understand what they where thinking when $70 was offered, the price they are asking is $150 ea and thats all for there spotteds. I can say I have found more people in sites like here that are willing to pay that much for spotteds. so thats the way I'd be going as well when I become a very happy snake breeder, it is not just for the monie its for us getting all we can out of the breeding and be able to go through the same thing next time and being able to exspand our collections.

I also over heard another couple that was trying to do a swap with this pet shop for 2 bredlies for$280 worth of food and the pet shop worker tryied to get them to through in there male BHP as well cause he over heard them talking about there bhp, I couldn't believe what I was hearing what a dick... well they couple was quite pee'd off.

and my exsperience is I have actually bought 2 capes yorks from there and I payed $200 for my female and $180 for my male, they were classing them as cross capies but them I fould out last year they are full cape yorks I thought that was a bloody bargain.

cheers jody

[Pythons Rule]

i would olny sell to a pet shop if I had too many snakes to look after and couldn't afford too and after I had tried everything first.

cheers jody

[foxysnake]

I can only say that I've been to a few petshops here in NQ that sell reptiles, but I wouldn't personally sell any animal to the any of the petshops that I frequent regardless of how much they had to offer. Petshops in general I find really need to lift their game in the keeping of their animals especially reptiles. The few times that the petshops have had someone half knowledgable in reptiles working for them never seem to last long, unsure of why personally.

If I had bred too many animals that I couldn't sell privately either locally or on the net, than I would approach someone like urs whose reputation is well known in the care and quality of their animals.

[foxysnake]

I've had past experiences of selling hand-raised parrots to petshops only to return back there to find that their beaks and wings have been over-cut causing the birds pain and stress, I've sold them rats and mice, only to find the owner accidently squishing the rodents to death with badly designed cages. So I'm ova the selling of anything to petshops. My b'tch is having puppies in a few weeks and under no circumstance will I be selling them to any petshop....
Ok, that's my venting done.....