Venomoids

[Moclobe]

I have had several email conversations with Ray over venomoids.

He is of the belief that it is not cruel because all of his snakes have survived the procedure. This view is obviously flawed as tail docking has been outlawed as cruel even though all the dogs survive the procedure.

He has also stated that there is great intrest in the herp community as he has had over 100 request to perform this procedure, including zoos and vets.

He has also said that he had to lobby hard to stop the burecats from making this proceedure mandatory for display animals.

This sould give you an Idea or the mentality of the man. If you need more background on this man check out http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/FWit/Hoser.htm

Regards David

[Slateman]

Yep Mudmum. Just look at the responce all arownd the wourld he created. Looks like he is seeking that type of thrill. All his actions are always in such a extreme level. Obvieously his knowledge is extremely high and his wiews do get attention of many herp hobyists.

I think that I will get more popularity to saw lips of our members of parlament on many ocasions.

[Ricko]

well im about to head off and go to this herp meeting and see what it is all about. i will post what it was like tonight or sometime over the weekend. (note to self: BE NICE)

[moosenoose]

He could have gone straight to the top and re-out-do Salman Rushdie - publish another Satanic Verses and annoy another group who'll react accordingly LOL Boy, this guy is a regular serial pest!

[bigguy]

Dave,

I have had the pleasure of seeing Rays form of sedation first hand. On a visit to my house in the late 1980's/early90's Ray wished to take several shots of some of my snakes.

One in particular, was a Dugite/Western Brown cross that had been obtained from Roy Pails. Ray advised me he would use an old trick of his to take the shots. Place the snake in a bag, than into the freezer for a few minutes. Even though I objected, Ray assued me it was absolutly safe and necessary. The snakes metabolism would be so slow it could be positioned(without trying to escape) long enough to take the pics.

After a few minutes in the freezer, the snake was removed from its bag. And what a surprise. No movement at all, not even breathing. Thats the trouble when your DEAD. I was furious that Ray had killed my snake, but he didnt care. He just placed the dead snake in my garden in a life like pose and took several shots. Rays stated he was sorry it died, but look on the bright side , at least I got my pic's.

He then wanted to put my Baroni Olive Python in the freezer for a try at that one. I totally refused, and said you will just have to do it the hard way. Ray managed only one good shot of the Baroni, which can now be seen in the Barker Python book.

[Farkurnell]

Geez Bob, why wasn't he helped out the door with ya size 12 steel caps up his date?

[instar]

OMG Bigguy, how long was ray in hospital? and did you beat the assult rap? Obviously hoser must be incredibly persuasive to have convinced you the first time to do it. Thats very sad, i would have been ballistic. out of morbid curiosity, how long was the poor thing actually in the freezer? was it healthy to begin with? what a horrible shock.

[bigguy]

Instar,

The snake was in perfect health before Rays sedation technique, and was only in the freezer for 2 to 3 minutes. Just long enough to cause death.

If this is the sedation he used before the vemoniod surgery, it is only going to slow the snakes reactions down, but I believe they would be able to feel every agonizing second of the operation.

Has anyone heard anything re the RSPCA investergation re the matter????

[Fuscus]

Originally Posted by bigguy

...After a few minutes in the freezer, the snake was removed from its bag. And what a surprise. No movement at all, not even breathing. Thats the trouble when your DEAD ...

thats bad, real bad - No photograph should cause the death of the subject.

[Ricko]

well i went last night to see this talk and my god he is very different. When we turned up he was walking in with a pizza and a plastic bag, half hour later he was eating his pizza only the topping and also opened his plastic bag which had a full lettuce in it and he ate the lettuce by itself, very different on to herps. He did a bit of an intro on how he does snake shows with a hook and other handling equipment and said thats how he does his show mind you he put the tiger snake on the table which proceeded to get off the table and head toward audience members, then he finally got it back in a tub and said thats how he shows his animals and then proceeded to try and do a show like fred Rossignelli (think thats how u spell it) and started free handling all at the same time 1xcopperhead, 2x red belly's, 1x eastern brown and 1x tiger snake. then told everyone they were the venomoids and did his whole talk and during that talk he started saying he feeds his tiger snake DOG BONES!!!!!!!! and he tried feeding his snakes supermarket sausages but they didnt work to well. Now his sedation for these operations were like this, put them in a bag or a container and then place in fridge for 5 minutes so there body goes dowqn to 7degrees or lower he said this is fine with them. then the talk finished and everyone was able to look at them well thats what i thought, until he started handing out red belly's and tiger snakes to kids under 10 yrs old, didnt once say now in the wild you cant do this or even say you shouldnt touch these snakes at all, just let red belly's and copperhead and tiger snakes crawl all over YOUNG kids. people were kissing these snakes on the head and he started to laugh about it, im sure the dse does not know he is letting little kids hold these snakes in his shows for up to half an hour at a time. Now he does this to his snake so there is no risk in people getting a bite from one of these venomous snakes and if they do now they should be fine and so he does not pay as much insurance. you could also tell that these snakes had no venom glands, even the ones with the implants did not look normal. any questions feel free to ask i am pretty sure i can remember most of the talk.

Rick

[bigguy]

If what I read is correct, and Ray is letting children hold venomous snakes without warnings, than I can safely bet sometime in the future he will be the cause of someone dieing from snake bite.

Children will not know the difference and will try and copy him by picking up wild specimens they may come accross.

I may occasionally free handle venomous snakes while doing my snake pit shows, but I ALWAYS advise the audience that I can only do this as these are captive bred, and to try what I am doing with a wild snake would result in a bite for sure.

Someone in Victoria should advise the relevant wildlife authorities as to what he is doing.

[Moclobe]

Bigguy,

I contacted the RSPCA on Wednesday and was told that someone will calll me back. Im still waiting for the call. I will ring them again on Monday.

Ricko,

Im and not suprised at all by what you have said. Dispite Ray's denials the only non scientific reason for creating venomoids is so you can act like a "macho cowboy" and free handle venomous snakes.

Ricko would you be prepared to give a statment to the RSPCA about what you saw, if so pm me with your contact details.

Regards David

[moosenoose]

I'm starting to get really pi**ed off now! First the Bigguy story, then Ricko's portrayal of last nights meeting. Where is the sanity of a guy who chows down on a whole lettuce???? This is like a sad remake of an old Frankenstein movie!! The trouble is the mad doctor is certainly a sandwich or two short of a picnic. My mind is ticking, a well calculated letter to the appropiate authorities is now in order A.S.A.P.

[Farkurnell]

Everyone seems to be too concerned about the Snakes.
What about the lettuce?? Is no one coming forward to defend it?
We all need to write to the Market Authorities in each state and protest the victimisation of the innocent lettuce.
I'm disgusted.




:

[Pinkie]

he was walking in with a pizza and a plastic bag, half hour later he was eating his pizza only the topping and also opened his plastic bag which had a full lettuce in it and he ate the lettuce by itself

lol if you didn't already think he was weird!