Victoria's schedules can be most frustrating

[herptrader]

Looking at ad 669-401on the Herp Trader I knew even before I searched the schedules that WA Lined-Tailed Pygmy Goanna (Varanus Caudolinetus) could not be kept here.

** Rant ON **

The department in Victoria has got lots of things right... like the sensible way they handle inport an export permits but when it comes to the schedules the maintenance of these the laws are definitely Victorian by nature

Anything that is fairly new to captive husbandry is just not on the schedules because only they were not kept at the time when the schedules were defined.

I am not blaming the department for this but the legislation ... and alas there are no votes in of correcting the anomalies so they are pretty much doomed to stay this way unless we can elect a herper to state government.

It is frustrating to say the least that many species, with straight forward husbandry requirements, can be kept in most states apart from Victoria (and to be fair Queensland, Tasmania and WA).

The species missing from the Victoria schedules that interest me include RSP's, leaf tailed geckos and a number of the monitor species.

Perhaps if this reptile expo can get enough popular press publicity we can start to raise some awareness which would be a good first step.

** Rant OFF **

[Magpie]

The department in Victoria has got lots of things right... like the sensible way they handle inport an export permits but when it comes to the schedules the maintenance of these the laws are definitely Victorian by nature

Actually, i like the Qld version.
We all know they are going to approve the permit, so why not pre issue them?

[herptrader]

What I like about them is that the cost of issuing them is included in your licence... which cuts down on the red tape. You can send them a fax and if they are not overly busy you get your response back the same day.

The systems in NSW, NT and WA (particuarly WA) are quite a challenge and take a bit of planning to organise. I have only exported to SA so really cannot comment. SA gets to keep most of the interesting species though.

Originally Posted by Magpie

Actually, i like the Qld version.
We all know they are going to approve the permit, so why not pre issue them?

[AntaresiaLady]

Don't even let me put my rant hat on about the laws here.

[westhamsc]

i won't comment on this but all i can say is if more people put there returns in they may look lighter on the subject

[africancichlidau]

If people don't put their returns in this year they won't have their licence renewed and lose their animals.

[africancichlidau]

AND RETURNS ARE DUE NOW!!!

[westhamsc]

correction overdue

[africancichlidau]

You have until 14th April

[SLACkra]

i did mine on monday and i got my licence laminated, its now tough as nails

andrew

[herptrader]

Originally Posted by westhamsc

i won't comment on this but all i can say is if more people put there returns in they may look lighter on the subject

My return was also sent yesterday.

Actually Jacob I think the department does ok and uses common sense when organising things that it has control over... such as when returns are due, procedures for renewing licenses etc. I even think it likely that there are some in the department that would like to see the schedules changed.. or at least would be quite sympathetic to a change. Alas it is not their call (as I understand it at least - please correct me somebody if I am wrong on this point) but a matter for the pollies who a long time ago laid down in stone the process for managing the schedules that mean they are very difficult to get changed. As such what is required to get the system changed is a bit of political will and there is not much of that when it comes to herps.... becuase it does not account for many votes.

[Morelia_Hunter]

Its not as easy as you think Herptrader. The VHS off course represents the reptile keepers in Victoria, this means that we are involved in the recomendations that go onto the schedules. Now it does take at least 2 years per species and they are of the opinion that there are a few hundred to choose from so why put more on there. I am right up there with you about the RSP. But the sad fact is that it does take time and there are only 3 meetings a year that these recomendations can be made on and it does not mean that they will grant us anything. Yes, cal it a labour of love but we are working on it. So maybe in 2 years time we will see them on our schedule, Maybe!!!!

[herptrader]

Originally Posted by Morelia_Hunter

Its not as easy as you think Herptrader. The VHS off course represents the reptile keepers in Victoria, this means that we are involved in the recomendations that go onto the schedules. Now it does take at least 2 years per species and they are of the opinion that there are a few hundred to choose from so why put more on there.

I think that is my point. At this stage the process is wrong. It was designed on the assumption that the species in captivity would form a fairly static list but as our knowledge and understanding has increased this assumption has proven false.

At this stage we have a better chance of being able to keep RSP's if they get reclassified as a morph of a GTP in the same way as we can now keep Darwin carpets which go on the licence and a Coastal. Looking at the schedules, and the schedule based system, I believe the law that underlies them is out of touch with scientific reality.

A far better solution would be to replace the "on list" / "off list" aproach of the schedule based system with a set of criteria that determine which species can be kept and by whom.

Such criteria might include:

1) Does the species do well in captivity?
2) Is the species dangerous to keep?
3) Is the species common in captivity?
4) Does rarity in numbers mean that the species should only be captivly maintained in managed breeding programs?
5) Does the species have educational value?

Etc. etc. Such criteria would also allow for animals to come in and out of the system as our knowledge of them increases. An example of this would be stumpy tailed lizards which once their breeding cycle was understood got put on a managed schedule. On the flip side you might see thorny devils, which might be off list because it is currently difficult to find suitable food for them in captivity be put on the list when a suitable captive food source is easy to obtain.

Anyway this is why I am saying we need some political will to change the process to one that makes more sense.

I also think there is a lot of value in bringing the different duristictions into line when it comes to these laws. (As I look out the window the pigs are primed and ready to take off!)

[Magpie]

I like the NSW approach to lists.
If you can legally get it, you can legally keep it unless it's a croc or seasnake.

[AntaresiaLady]

Its all a blur here- Dealers (the only people allowed to sell reptiles in WA) have Takers licenses (the only people allowed to take from the wild here)...Its geared to make them money. They go out, catch a snake, pay a minimal fee to CALM for it, then stick it in their shop for $400+! If you want to sell more than one clutch per year you need to pay $1000 a year for a breeders license.

Its ridiculous. And we have 41 species covering all reptiles- snakes, lizards, frogs, geckos etc...
I think that unless people kick up about it, the rules out here won't change.