Will you be Crossing your subspecies??

[Kersten]

Originally Posted by NCHERPS

In light of the recent thread, I thought it would be interesting to do a poll and get a snap shot of members views on how they feel about crossing subspecies today or in the near future.

Please be honest in your answers when polling.

Cheers Neil

I have no interest in knowingly crossing subspecies.

[herpsrule]

i would DEFINATELY not breed them, i prefer the 'classic' i think PURE blood is better then a hybrid.
however,
if the specimen was a really good looking snake, whether interesting, pretty, different, etc i would keep it. but NOT breed it.

thats my say

Nat

[yellowtamarin]

Definitely not.
In fact, I prefer the look of snakes as they appear in the wild - their natural colours and patterns - rather than anything special or out of the ordinary.
I personally would never purchase a python that had an appearance that I thought would be rare to find in the wild.

[cockney red]

More or less sums me up.

Originally Posted by yellowtamarin

Definitely not.
In fact, I prefer the look of snakes as they appear in the wild - their natural colours and patterns - rather than anything special or out of the ordinary.
I personally would never purchase a python that had an appearance that I thought would be rare to find in the wild.

[reptilesDownUnder]

For the record, I don't give a rat's if people breed hybrids (at any taxonomical level). The animals are in captivity and, unless the health and well-being of the animal is compromised, I don't see why it matters. Sure, people can then start selling hybrid animals as pure-bred ones, but there's nothing stopping them from doing that now.

I also think that crossing subspecies is very similar to crossing a coastal carpet from north Queensland with a coastal carpet from south Queensland. You can legally do that because they're on paper as the same species, but the event would never occur in the wild. So what's the difference between crossing a diamond python with a coastal carpet? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm happy for an anti-hybrid person to enlighten me.

While we're here, can anyone actually offer a definition of 'subspecies'? (Again, that's not a rhetorical.)

And, also for the record, I have no interest in knowingly breeding hybrids.

Stewart

[Ramsayi]

Originally Posted by Southside Morelia

LOL, your right to a certain extend although sarcasm has crept in a bit there! You hit the nail on the head with NPWS paperwork being a breeze....and admistrating the paperwork from their end will also be a breeze....understand?
Who are these breeders who say that...ie, "these are X's, but keep it quiet" expose them, as I am curious myself from that comment! Or don't you have the Balls to put your money where your mouth is?
Have you purchased from the alleged breeders?
Your in the know, enlighten us, or PM me with the breeders YOU know of, or is it here say and rumour? OR do you want to purchase from them in the future?

Keep fishing mate although nothing is biting.On the subject of have I purchased from these people in the past or future the answer is NO.Anyone who involves themselves in breeding this crap is on my never to deal with list.

[pythonrockchik1]

4th option for me, keep things pure... Though I do still respect and appreciate the animals that are of crossed lineage, it would DEFINETLY NOT be something I'd encourage by breeding such animals on purpose.

I believe cross breeding snakes should be illegal in all states, not just QLD, just MHO though.

Cheers everyone

[cockney red]

No! we dont understand mr know it all. Stop alluding, and spit it out.

Originally Posted by Southside Morelia

LOL, your right to a certain extend although sarcasm has crept in a bit there! You hit the nail on the head with NPWS paperwork being a breeze....and administrating the paperwork from their end will also be a breeze....understand?
Who are these breeders who say that...ie, "these are X's, but keep it quiet" expose them, as I am curious myself from that comment! Or don't you have the Balls to put your money where your mouth is?
Have you purchased from the alleged breeders?
Your in the know, enlighten us, or PM me with the breeders YOU know of, or is it here say and rumour? OR do you want to purchase from them in the future?

[amazonian]

Originally Posted by Southside Morelia

LOL, your right to a certain extend although sarcasm has crept in a bit there! You hit the nail on the head with NPWS paperwork being a breeze....and administrating the paperwork from their end will also be a breeze....understand?
Who are these breeders who say that...ie, "these are X's, but keep it quiet" expose them, as I am curious myself from that comment! Or don't you have the Balls to put your money where your mouth is?
Have you purchased from the alleged breeder
Your in the know, enlighten us, or PM me with the breeders YOU know of, or is it here say and rumour? OR do you want to purchase from them in the future?

It is quite obvious that breeders are selling x bred snakes as pures. You can see it quite clearly just by searching through some of the posts here. There has been a multitude of "check out my new *add species here* " threads where the (usually a new keeper) thinks they just scored a great purebred species when infact it was quickly pointed out by numerous members that it was a mongrel/mutt.

[ad]

Guess which one I picked,
Keep them pure, It is our Australian wildlife we are entrusted to keep on license.
If you can't respect that - then maybe you should just get a cat, dog, rabbit etc.
We don't have to follow the yanks - we have the animals they all want - learn by the mistakes over there,
improve on it here - we are 20 years behind them on hybridizing but 20 years in front of them for Pure animals.
If they ever allow legal exporting of our reptiles - guess which ones the yanks will want??

[whiterabbit]

Hey, this might just seem like a newbie question but when talking about crossing sub-species does this refer to the locality of the snake? I just ask this because many of the snakes I've seen up for sale aren't local specific eg stimmies (have stimsons even been classified into subspecies?), so then if there was an intent to breed from it you wouldn't actually know the sub-species.
As a side question, what kind of sub-species are out there that are under debate? does this generally refer to the genus Morelia?

Cheers
WR

[rockman]

Originally Posted by Ramsayi

What about everyone classes all Morelia as the same thing and throws everything together?We could then just have one type of Morelia maybe we could call it Morelia.s.mutt.

At least that way everyone would know what they actually have in their collections and there would be no need to keep too many like we currently do if we want all the different types currently on offer.NPWS paperwork would be a breeze as well just one species code.

Another thing that amuses me no end is that some of the more well known breeders (you know who you are and others have taken note) are crossing stuff but are doing it quietly,even going as far as telling potential buyers to "keep it to yourself" as to where it came from.Now if they feel the need to cross things and in their own eyes see nothing wrong with it then why be so secretive about it? Have the balls to at least stand by the decision you made!

Ramsayi , are you saying that there is well known breeders out there breeding cross-breeds .

SHAME SHAME SHAME .

Do you think that they will stand up to be counted ? , i doubt it .
I heard that there was going to be alot of albino cross( with what-ever is in the room at the time ) things coming out of the woodwork from last years breeding . Maybe they where all "accidents " . LOL

[Southside Morelia]

Of course you wouldn't...LOL... I can only surmise from what is happening in the hobby and what is happening with Licensing changes and talking with people WHO ARE ALOT MORE EDUCATED than yourself in this field.
Let's wait and see what happens, IF I am wrong and things stay as is, I will be the first person to admit my foresight and information given to me to date was incorrect...and I expect you to say, well you were right if it happens...mutual respect hey!
Cheers
scott.

Originally Posted by cockney red

No! we dont understand mr know it all. Stop alluding, and spit it out.

[ihaveherps]

Stimsons are split taxonomically into two..... antaresia stimsoni and antaresia stimsoni orientalis.

[amazonian]

Originally Posted by Southside Morelia

Not fishing Ramsayi and I want to keep the debate civil, back up your allegations with fact or don't say it! Simple!
We all have similar views and opinions on this topic as we all don't want to taint our hobby like it has OS...but remember the=se are our Native specie, in the US and Europe they aren't and we don't export to them anymore anyway!
Sooo, I know for a fact that countless top breeders will keep breeding pure local sub-species in the future...we love them and personally, that's all I keep, but you can't stop people from x breeding...so from an educated standpoint it has to be managed.... IMO, I don't think Australia will follow the path of the OS Countries purely because we have the Natural resource at our back doors and people like US are passionate about keeping our species pure...doesn't mean we can't have designer morphs/hybrids as well...IMO
People who are that irresponsible to let them go or let them escape, shopuldn't own snakes to start with!
Cheers Scott.
PS. Have a great night, it's dinner tiome!

You want to keep it civil yet you resorted to name calling? Ironic huh.

I don't know about you but common sense tells me that if a purist keeper resents with disgust a breeder that pollutes our hobby with mongrel trash, than it is most likely that purist keeper wouldn't associate with the cross breeder. Yet you expect the purist to be on 1st name basis with the scum breeder lol. Ironic huh.