Will you be Crossing your subspecies??

[ravensgait]

JP, I'll see if I can pull some info up and send it to you. But most the DNA work has just been mentioned in papers and post on Carpets and the like.. It is my understanding that not a lot has been done. There has been some talk of doing some work here in the states but the problem is that in most cases they can't be sure where the animals they are taking samples from originated , just one cross could make a mess of it..

There are the Morelia Spilota -- Spilota Spilota, Cheynei, Harrisoni, Mcdowelli ETC ETC then there is Morelai Bredli which seemed to be different enough to split off from Spilota .. I think we sometimes forget that these animals all have a common ancestor .

CR , I'm sure there is some difference but it doesn't seem to be that much. What is the differences you see between say a Coastal and a Jungle- Color, Markings and some size, not all that big a difference. When just looking at them and what little DNA work done doesn't find all that much difference. Sort of a scary thought what if next year some researcher decided to break them up even more and added say 10 more subspecies or 20 ! Many would say BS and still call them what they are today others would have a bunch more Spilota to play with.. We still call Green tree pythons Chondro's which was their name until someone decided to toss them into the Morelia yet we still call them Chondro's lol It's just people that break all this up not the snakes themselves..

And just to be clean I do not want to see them all lumped back into one subspecies.. Randy

[Ramsayi]

Lumpers and Splitters have always been around and will never see eye to eye.This paper regarding the dna testing of all Morelia that supposedly lumps them all in to 3 or 4 distinct groups has been spoken about for years yet as far as I am aware this so called paper hasn't surfaced.Yet it is always mentioned by hybrid breeders to justify why they do what they do.

[willia6]

If I had a good looking bredli and a good looking M.D. I would probably cross them to be honest. it'd be interesting to see what they look like.

[beeman]

Originally Posted by willia6

If I had a good looking bredli and a good looking M.D. I would probably cross them to be honest. it'd be interesting to see what they look like.

They are arroud already and in mho they are crap!

[willia6]

really?
can you post some pics up?

[ihaveherps]

Ravensgait, to my understanding, this nex taxonomy system actually lumps Greens and Roughies both into Chondropython, and seperates Bredli and Imbricata from the spilota's. Although I am yet to hear that this new system is widely accepted, as even within their own ilk, taxonomists rarely agree, part of why the taxonomy is one of the most contemptuous of the sciences.

Dna testing on pythons at this stage is rather useless, except in regards to proving paternity. Work up to this point in regards to the carpets has only come to the conclusion that there are minor genetic differences between the spilotas, possibly not enough to warrant so many sub-species, yet unless the genome is completely mapped, the relevence of these minute differences are not really applicable to any taxonomic breakthrough. The DNA testing you are refering to is no more than pure data, without any application as of yet.

So to my understanding Ranensgait, so far the bulk of your arguement in this thread revolves around DNA testing and taxonomy. The DNA testing, a proven science, although its application in this sense is yet to be in any way complete as the data they have collected thus far has no application, and on the other hand Taxonomy, which even by your own posts is not a concrete science so cannot see how this even helps your arguement. Furthermore when some have tried to pass their own opinions on the subject of locale breeding, an idea you cannot seem to fathom, as in itself it is alot more common-sence way to keep rather than continually chasing the whims of the taxonomists.

I fail to see how the bulk of what you have contributed to this thread has any validity at all, it all sound good at a glance, but has no basis in finite science at all.

Regards
Herpies

[stevel]

Heres one of my Aussie pythons !





its a yearling jungle jaguar (coastal x jungle )

what ever you lot say about this animal it is from your country ,a few generations removed and crossed yes

Rediculous this prure debate is ,i mean why would you not want a good looking snake if you could make one?

would you say no to this snake then?

[boa]

That's a beautiful snake in it's own right Steve.

[FNQ_Snake]

Originally Posted by stevel

would you say no to this snake then?

I would. I only like purebreds. This is a beautiful snake, but IMO I will always love and own pure breds.

I relate it to dogs, you don't see anyone asking for a Rottweiler X Collie now.

There are only a few hybridisers out there, good luck to them. I just hope that the pure breds don't get weaned out over the coming decades.

[cement]

[quote=ravensgait;1148450]Concrete,, Quote"" I won't be crossing sub species, because I don't actually feel I have the right to fiddle with naturally occuring species.""
Ah so you must not own or breed any animals then, why hang around a reptile site then? Yeah I know you're just being a hypocrite. As owning and breeding reptiles goes against what you say in the quote above. I know I know in your world it's do as I say not as I do LMAO.

You are a true genius Randy. No one but you has caught me out. I am constantly amazed by your infinite wisdom and clarity. I really must say you win the debate.Especially with this comment

"JP, I'll see if I can pull some info up and send it to you. But most the DNA work has just been mentioned in papers and post on Carpets and the like.. It is my understanding that not a lot has been done. There has been some talk of doing some work here in the states but the problem is that in most cases they can't be sure where the animals they are taking samples from originated , just one cross could make a mess of it.."

Thank you.

[stevel]

Originally Posted by boa

That's a beautiful snake in it's own right Steve.

Thank you mate

[stevel]

Originally Posted by FNQ_Snake

I would. I only like purebreds. This is a beautiful snake, but IMO I will always love and own pure breds.

I relate it to dogs, you don't see anyone asking for a Rottweiler X Collie now.

There are only a few hybridisers out there, good luck to them. I just hope that the pure breds don't get weaned out over the coming decades.

Fair comments but breeders are producing labradors crossed to bloody poodles, labradoodles and there becoming very popular (not for me) :p,hidious IMO but i say they have there rights to do that ,lets face it most things in captivity are messed with/man made ,even your so called pure pythons its just for us to get the best from that species !?!

So you see why people cross snakes ? if you deny the beauty of this Jaguar cross then i think your probably a little uptight about the whole issue and need to relax somewhat <not aimed at any one in particular

[ravensgait]

Cement, point being that unless they went out and pulled the animals to be used in the study from the bush you can't be sure that all are what they are supposed to be.. Not even Aussie keepers could be 100 percent sure that every animal they have is what it is purported to be.. I know that is a bit obvious which is likely why you overlooked it..

Quote""to my understanding, this nex taxonomy system actually lumps Greens and Roughies both into Chondropython,""
Herps Chondro Python Viridis was done away with years ago and they were added to Morelia becoming Morelia Viridis, I think Roughies have always been Morelia Carinata.. My argument has been that I feel people should be able to breed what they want to breed and that's pretty much it..
Quote""Taxonomy, which even by your own posts is not a concrete science so cannot see how this even helps your arguement. """
Not sure I understand your meaning but that does reinforce some of what I've said IE it could all change tomorrow and you could be a hybrid breeder. Locality tell me which locality is isolated from any other to prevent Locality mixing? Heck for the most part the sub species are not isolated from each other to prevent cross breeding.

JP haven't forgotten been a bit busy the last few days with these critters .. Randy

[cement]

"There has been some talk of doing some work here in the states but the problem is that in most cases they can't be sure where the animals they are taking samples from originated , just one cross could make a mess of it.."[/quote]

Yeah I always miss the obvious Randy, thats why this quote is so good. So your gonna pull them from the bush mate yeah, sure.I have said to you before, that I don't care that you like to play mix and match (after all it is your god given American right) remember? Just stop writing dribble to try and justify what you do. Oh actually no, keep writing dribble because If you stopped it would be because I told you to and thats going against your liberating persona.
Backs to the wall every one, here come the Great American Liberators. Now if you feel that I am doing the wrong thing by having an interest in keeping species pure, you should acknowledge that instead of trying to continually try to climb on your soapbox .
CEMENT

[aspidito]

Originally Posted by stevel

Heres one of my Aussie pythons !



would you say no to this snake then?

Hi Steve, how are you mate Ive told you before I would never say no to one of your snakes, now how are your eggs going, you should have some stunners hatching soon
Cheers, Paul.