thorny devil

[hornet]

Originally Posted by Miss_Croft

(There are laws against keeping thorny devils in Australia).

Where did you hear that? yes is some states they may not be on the lists but most states they can be kept. They have tried feeding them on various other food sources, roaches, crix, wax worms. They accepted the alternate food but died after a short period.

[jessb]

I don't know about keeping them at home but I saw an awesome one at Castlehill Expo. Maybe whoever keeps that one could give you some advice?

Are their "thorns" actually sharp? Or just for show?

[Miss_Croft]

hornet – If you cannot buy them from the open market – ie there are no captive bred animals then they cannot be kept. My understanding is they are not on the list of animals the “general public” can keep on license in most Australian states.

notechistiger – can you shed some light on the said attempts of keeping thorny devils – Where were the thorny devils sourced?
How old were the thorny devils when sourced?
How long did the thorny devils live captive care?
What was learnt about keeping thorny devils?
What were the signs and symptoms before death – did they waist away slowly - start to fit before?
Did they feed the thorny devils on only captive bred insects or a mixture of wild caught and captive bred?

I still believe a change of diet is possible – there just has to be the incentive. A change to another captive bred crawling insects may be possible. (doubt wax worms are any good as they are too high in fat).

Also if they were wild caught animals what effort was made to rid the thorny devils of their parasite load – studies have shown wild animals have a very high parasite load – if put under stress or kept in an enclosed area could potentially kill the wild caught thorny devil (Much like wasting disease often seen in wild caught reptiles here in the US).

[hornet]

there are private breeders, i know 1 and have heard of others. In qld you can keep em, SA you need a specialist endorsment to keep them, NSW i'm not sure but sure you can keep them on a specialist permit, VIC probably cant keep em, no idea bout NT and WA i'd say no. The animals i know that were attemped to change over to a more readly available diet were all captive bred young. As i said they ate the alternative food source but all died, longest lasting one year. I guess its something in the ants that is needed for them to live, i have been thinking about if they could survive on something like crickets if they had their diet supplemented with ants every few feeds to provide them what other food items are lacking.

[Chimera]

Miss Croft, on your point about legalities you are a bit off the mark. All you have to do in NSW is prove that there is a legitimate source from another state to get a species code (obviously there would need to be a bit of a review given the difficulty in keeping the species, but it is certainly possible).

Both private keepers and institutions are reluctant to detail failures in text, however you do hear a lot about failures in keeping this species. I know that Sydney Wildlife World recently lost their thorny devils.

In regards to your statement about their similarity to Phrynosoma, I think you'll find that Moloch is far less opporunistic in their foraging behavior (Phrynosoma is known to take beetles in lieu of harvester ants, and known to take multiple species of ants). Further to this, the behavior of small black ants in regards to trails is vastly different to what I have seen of harvester ants (i.e. they form a clear line over a very specific trail).

To assume that no-one in Australia has tried to supplement or change their diet and haven't accounted for parasite load in wild animals is just plain arrogant. But maybe they just need your years of experience.

[cris]

Originally Posted by notechistiger

Just because one species can adapt to another food source doesn't mean the other can or will. Also, I know a few people that had attempted to supplement their food, and nada. So, as current things stand, your guess would be wrong.

Yeah but this was done in Australia we are infants of herpetology. Thats why they will only learn how to keep them if exported to other countries, you obviously dont know much

[Renagade]

my uncle kept them in the 80's. he was a a national parl ranger at Kalbarri WA. he would just keep and release because they were so time consuming. these are some pics from castlew hill show. x

[willia6]

Originally Posted by hornet

there are private breeders, i know 1 and have heard of others. In qld you can keep em, SA you need a specialist endorsment to keep them, NSW i'm not sure but sure you can keep them on a specialist permit, VIC probably cant keep em, no idea bout NT and WA i'd say no. The animals i know that were attemped to change over to a more readly available diet were all captive bred young. As i said they ate the alternative food source but all died, longest lasting one year. I guess its something in the ants that is needed for them to live, i have been thinking about if they could survive on something like crickets if they had their diet supplemented with ants every few feeds to provide them what other food items are lacking.

maybe you could try and hand feed them and go 10 ants = 1 alternative food source or something

[hornet]

Originally Posted by willia6

maybe you could try and hand feed them and go 10 ants = 1 alternative food source or something

where did you get to?

[willia6]

Originally Posted by hornet

I guess its something in the ants that is needed for them to live, i have been thinking about if they could survive on something like crickets if they had their diet supplemented with ants every few feeds to provide them what other food items are lacking.

that part

[Miss_Croft]

Welcome back Willia6

Renagade - thanks heaps for the great photos - they are very pretty lizards....

[Dabool]

as far as i know a breeder here in the nt kept thorny devils with limited success he had 6 enclosures each with an established colony with one of the 2 different types of ants they eat and the deviles were moved between the enclosures eventually they all died after months of very hard work.