Breeding rats

[Just_Joshin]

Originally Posted by wood_nymph

o for killing i reckon freezer is the best they just go to sleep

No they don't!!! They are a warm blooded mammal much like us humans. Putting a rat in the freezer till it dies would be like sticking you in the freezer NAKED until you died.

The two most recognised methods of killing mice and rats is using cervical dislocation or gasing them. Either that or a very swift, rapid blow to the head, i.e. grab them by the tail and swing them so the back of the head hits some hard.

Cervical dislocation only works with rats up to about 150-200g as any bigger and they have too much bulk around the neck to do it correctly and humanely. If you don't know what these methods are then look them up.

PLEASE don't stick them in the freezer while alive.

[serenaphoenix]

yeah thanks womanator - i didn't think that was right... however - i can't imagine i'd be a very good whacker either - best stick to TV dinners from the pet store i think.

[congo_python]

serenaphoenix the most humane way to kill off small mamals is via a carbon dioxide chamber.

Congo

[serenaphoenix]

thanks lots congo - that's what i thought - but where on earth do you buy CO2 - is that dry ice - i never did chemistry unfortunately? is it expensive?

[congo_python]

oops abit too late on the co2, and yes i agree with Womarator DO NOT STICK THEM IN THE FREEZER AS IT IS VERY INHUMANE !!!!!

Congo

[ponybug]

serenaphoenix, send me a pm if you want any info on a gas chamber, i have pics, hehe.....

[congo_python]

Look serena if you only have a few rats the best way to kill them humanely even if you do not like it, is just to knock them on the head by swinging them by the tail and clashing their head with a hard object i.e brick, they don't know what's going on and it's the end.
If you have plenty i.e 100's to kill off like me you buy a co2 bottle from supa gas for $125 a year and kill them off in a co2 chamber (bottle lasts about a year or more).

Thanks
Congo

[bjbk18]

Hey serenaphoneix the uni's use the method of wacking their heads over the edge of a table i dint think it was right but i think it is the best way as they dont no what is coming and is quick. Thats how i am going to do mine. i expect 2 littlers in the next couple of days. I am breeding for me and a friend.

[serenaphoenix]

eek - thankyou everyone - very helpful. fair point though congo - i think i will start my own colony but i only have two pythons at the moment - as a few have said - it's an addiction so i'll wait until i have a few dozen like ponybug - then maybe a gas chamber will seem less nazi.

[lauraschram]

Hi everyone
I am a veterinary student and i breed rats and ice on a very large scale - we supply many pet shops in victoria. just thought id make a few comments as it seems people may be a bit miss informed on a few things and ive done a fair bit of research and had allot of experience.

as mentioned it is cruel to freeze mice/rats EXCEPT in the case of pinkys - that is the ones that haven't yet grown fur. at this stage in their lives their body has not developed the ability to control its own temperature or even to recognize that it needs to so they die quickly and it is much nicer than using CO2
co2 is the agent that triggers you to breathe. if you hold your breath it is the build up of co2, not the lack of oxygen that will make you gasp. if you gas a mouse or rat with co2 it knows its suffocating. many industries have realized this and are now using mixtures including inert gasses such as argon which do not cause the suffocating feeling.

As for the older ones carbon dioxide it best used in the hands of an inexperienced handler if you cant get hold of some of the nicer gasses. cervical dislocation is great if you are good but if you screw it up - which you will for a while, they suffer. If you two waznt to try this there are two methods
i find it easiest to hold them about 2/3 the way down the tail and swing their neck hard and fast against the 90 degree side of a hard table. do not use a table with a curved edge or a rubber edge as you will only stun them.
The other method involves using a screwdriver or similar and placing it avross the bac of the neck (not point in) and pushing down (hard) while pulling bac hard on the hind quarters. i personally am not strong enough to do this correctley on rats.
either way -DONT HESITATE, DO IT SWIFTLY
There is a site http://www.grandin.com/humane/insensibility.html, that goes through the ways in which you can tell if an animal is properly stunned and most of the information can be applied to rats and mice. basically if you perform cervical dislocation properly their legs may kick (together) but their eyes should be open staring blankly - not blinking - and although they may gasp they will not breath regularly. if you see anything other than this repeat the motion immediately to minimize suffering and complete the job.


As per breeding i noticed that someone suggested removing the father- in my colony and in many others i know of the fathers play an active role in caring for the young when kept in groups of one male and two females.

Females can be post partum mated (straight after birth) and will produce the next litter readily in the next 22 to 25 days if provided with adequate nutrition. the best way to do this is with ad lib commercially processed mouse cubes. (and ad lib water) this may not wor if they get too hot - they to keep the temp around 27 degrees and supply lots of bedding such as shredded paper for when it gets cold.

i hope this helps someone- otherwise i have just wasted ages typing hen i should be studying for my exams! Ive had allot of experience as have the people i work with so i can probably answer most questions, and i have a few text books for the ones i don't know!


cheers

laura

btw im after rat/mouse tubs if anyone in vic is selling em!

[ponybug]

very simple to set up and do,

[lauraschram]

Nice set up -a friend of mine has a similar setup but uses those large white buckets with a lid thats just a little too small - so that it fits inside, then you can slide the lid down to where that animals are so you don't have to waste a whole bucket for one rat!

[serenaphoenix]

Great stuff Laura - it did worry me that some people may have been just shoving their animals in the freezer... and now i know too - great stuff pony - no mice in there at the moment i see - does have an eerie feeling though. lol. mouse zombies..

[ponybug]

thanks, this one works well, lol, we also breed on a big scale and i never have one to do, lol, most times i'm doing over 50 to 100 at a time, for mice i have a wire cage that fits inside the box, so when one lot is done, i change boxes and can get 2 lots done for one lot of gas,

i must say i was interested in the fact that you freeze pinkies, get ready with the flame suit, but i also freeze the pinkies and have always done so, they are gone very quickly, a lady in brissy who started me up with most of my breeding mice and rats years ago told me it's kinder to freeze pinkies because of the exact reasons you have just wrote, i have seen a mate ga them in a little bag, but i still think a freezer is lots quicker for pinkies,
i've been breeding rodents for 20 years on and off, it's nice to read somebody else's ways,

[lauraschram]

id offer to do it for you but i am in vic. seems a bit far to travell. you could ask your pet shop but they normally just buy them in.
as far as the freezer goes i am a wildlife carer and save the ones that dont make it for our parasitology lecturer at uni - my freezer currently contains numerous rats and mice, 3 ringtail possums, a fruit bat and two kittens... its on the bottom shelf and tripple sealed in plastic but mum mum still wont eat anything out of my freezer when she comes over .... people are so touchy about these things...
as per freezing pinkies imagine it - quietley going to sleep, perhaps a little bi cold but you wouldnt really shake or anything, just watch them, if you put them on a metal tray its all over in a few mins. compare this to suffocating i know which id rather...