Breeding rats

[Valley Reptile Supplies]

Originally Posted by Mase

is it a must to remove the father ?

Sounds like someone is talking from what they were told or read not actual experiance
And can i ask why is that so i gett half as many babies
my females atm are having abt 15 pups every 21-27 days.
if i was to take the male out after her getting pregnant i would only be getting 1/2 as many
there for they cost twice as much prolly more cause i would need more females.

[lauraschram]

i like your idea with the cages! im lucky in a way as we have to do allot of assignments on slaughter processes for uni, its a good excuse for research and allot of things used in other specie can be applied to what we do. argon it what there currently using to kill pigs in the best places!
the other way for pinkies (mice) is to just throw em really hard at the ground, its a good alternative to live feeding for fussy snakes if you dont have co2 but you have to do it hard. i tried this when i had some fussy snakes and someone recommended slicing their throats live-there was no way i was going in for that!
would be interested in any other wisdom you wish to share pony bug. know much about ringworm in mice? have had a recent outbreak, i guess from wild mice. wondering if it is it possible to treat?
anyhow cheers
laura

[ponybug]

haha @ your mum, we had to buy 4 new freezers to hold our stock, so i know what your saying, nobody will even open them up, hehe,
i do the pinkie on the ground thingy, it works great for new hatchys that want to eat live,

i've sent you a pm laura,

[Hix]

Freezing Pinkies? I've been told by vets that ice crystals form in the blood before death and it is quite painful.

Hix

[xycom]

Can argosheild 50 (welding gas) be used?

I can't remember what the mix is, I think it's 50% argon and 50% something else co2 or nitrigen. I can have a look at the bottle tomorrow.


Per

[lauraschram]

brain death would occur far before blood crystals form so no pain i believe although you be hard pressed to find any studies on the subject! basically the brain rquires enzymes to metabolise glucose for energy, without energy the barin dies and if the enzymes get to cold they stop so to cold = brain death. im sure heaps of other things are invloved but in general enzyme sonyl work well within a few degrees of body temp and the animal will die before ice crystals form. In large animals this may happen (in the peripheries) before the brain dies but in pinkies no probs. sorry if this is poorly spelt etc but i am in exam week, tiered and cant spell on my better days!

[lauraschram]

may be ok but basically you want something with 0 co2 as arcon does not bind heamaglobin like c02 does so the co2 will still bind - be noted by the brain and cause that suffocating reflex i think. its an interesting topic as chichens are now begining to be killed in an argon co2 mix which sort of defeats the purpose unless the co2 floats above the argon - im not sure of their molecular weights. does anyone have any ideas?

[Hix]

Originally Posted by lauraschram

although you be hard pressed to find any studies on the subject!

That's why I err on the side of caution and agree with what I have been told.



Hix

[lauraschram]

Yeah i wouldnt us eth welding gas. Nitrogen on its own should be ok though if you can get it.
maybe we should design some tiny guillotines?

[Just_Joshin]

Originally Posted by lauraschram

co2 is the agent that triggers you to breathe. if you hold your breath it is the build up of co2, not the lack of oxygen that will make you gasp. if you gas a mouse or rat with co2 it knows its suffocating. many industries have realized this and are now using mixtures including inert gasses such as argon which do not cause the suffocating feeling.

As for the older ones carbon dioxide it best used in the hands of an inexperienced handler if you cant get hold of some of the nicer gasses. cervical dislocation is great if you are good but if you screw it up - which you will for a while, they suffer. If you two waznt to try this there are two methods
i find it easiest to hold them about 2/3 the way down the tail and swing their neck hard and fast against the 90 degree side of a hard table. do not use a table with a curved edge or a rubber edge as you will only stun them.
The other method involves using a screwdriver or similar and placing it avross the bac of the neck (not point in) and pushing down (hard) while pulling bac hard on the hind quarters. i personally am not strong enough to do this correctley on rats.
either way -DONT HESITATE, DO IT SWIFTLY
!

I thought if CO2 gasing was to be done correctly, to avoid the suffocating response, you first had to fill your chamber with a small amount of C02. This would cause the animal to fall asleep as the O2 saturation drops and not cause a suffocating response (much like on some airlines that use low O2 levels in the cabin to help keep passengers calm). After you have allowed them to sit in this low O2 level environment and fall asleep THEN you rapidly flush the chamber with gas causing almost instant death. Is this not the same thing that happens to a human who is stuck in a sealed room for long enough. As the O2 concentration drops and the CO2 concentration slowly rises then the person will become drowsy and drift off to sleep. After which time the O2 levels will continue to drop and they will die sleeping??

Also isn't the second method you describe to use in favour of cervial dislocation or gasing Not cervical dislocation?? I.e. you say cervical dislocation is good but tricky, then go on to advise of to other methods, one of which is cervical dislocation?? I'm kinda confused their as the screwdriver method you describe is cervical dislocation.