Couple of enclosure questions.

[-Totenkopf-]

Hey guys,

Recently been looking to get a bredli or coastal as a first python. I've owned turtles, bearded dragons/water dragons in the long lost past but im after some information in regards to enclosure setups.

I acquired a display cabinet off the old man (was rolling around in the dust under his house) and thought that it'd make an okay enclosure. I've been fitting up lighting and what not to the enclosure and am wondering about the necessity of vents and their location and what not.

I've bought a vent but at this stage, as 3 sides of the enclosure are glass and the rear of it has a mirror across it the only location for fitment is in the roof. I assume this would let out too much heat though and have negligible effect on airflow in the enclosure. This leaves me with a couple of options. I can remove the mirror out of the back of the cabinet and fit the vent I purchased (probably look more aesthetically pleasing with the mirror left in though), or alternatively I could just drill a number of holes (~5mm?) around the wooden parts at the end of the cabinet.

How important is ventilation, is it absolutely necesssary? If so, which method do you think would prove best.

Also a quick question. I've got some camphorloral branches and bark in the enclosure. I've soaked them in bleach for some time but currently they have the typical camphorloral smell to them. I don't know if this is likely to subside as they dry out properly or if this will cause issues to the reptile.

At the moment heating is provided by a heat lamp and a normal incandescent bulb. I've made up a couple of cages for the lights but haven't fitted them yet. Need to think of a method that'll allow easy removal when bulbs blow. I'm still up in the air about nighttime heating. I'll either get a heatmat or a ceramic heat emitter (or infared light). Speaking of which. I've put the glass that used to constitute the shelf in the cabinet underneath the astroturf. Would it be okay to place a heatmat beneath this. I know its generally recommended not to have a heat mat in the enclosure. Is this because the animal can excrete fluids on it, or are there other reasons. If thats the only reason I assume it'd be okay to put the mat within the enclosure in this instance as there is a layer of glass between the animal and the mat. I still need to purchase a thermostat at this point. I don't mind if I need to hardwire the lightning and what not into it or its a type that'll take a plug, I don't really mind, are there any recommended models?

Anyway, the enclosure measures around 1200x400x550. I would like something a little deeper but this will do for a hatchling, and I'll look for something a little more spacey as he grows. Any advice tips or opinions are appreciated. A couple of pictures are attached.

Cheers,

James.

[peterjohnson64]

First things first James. Sorry, but I don't think that that cage will actually do for a hatchling. Unless you never want to either see it or feed it. The reason, mate, is that little baby snakes are very agrophobic. I.e. they are crap scared of wide open spaces. Think of yourself roaming around in times of T Rex's. You would be quite scared of wide open spaces as well and would tend to frequent small caves. Same for your hatchy. Not that this is a problem for you at all. House your hatchling snake in a tub as shown in the attached picture. All you need is a heat mat under one end.

Anyway, as for vents you already actually have them in the gaps between the doors.

In terms of heating. First we need to know where you live and the types of temps you get in your house. If, for example, you live in Townsville then you wont need night time heating. However, if you are keeping the snake in an outdoor shed in Canberra this will be different. I keep my carpets (Diamonds and Gammons) inside in a herp room and do not provide night time heat at all. But the room temp is only gettign down to about 16 at the moment and that is a lot warmer than outside in their naturally occuring ranges. Not that you should drop their temps that much because in the wild they will find well insulated hides that allow them to keep their body temps.

[PhilK]

I disagree. When my snake was a bub and I put him into his adult enclosure straight up (not being told otherwise) he ate just fine, explored alot, and was fine to handle. Though I did provide him with lots and lots of places to hide (making him feel secure)

Lamps and heating: it sounds like you're gonna have 50 heat elements in there. My idea would be to put one red-tinted reptile globe in one corner and give a basking area. This gives light the snake can't really see and heat. It's fine for day and night. Thsi way you aren't uggling heat lamps, infrareds, heat mats and ceramics. One end will be heated up by the infrared globe, giving a heat gradient. If you want the cage to be light during the day, fit a fluro or something.

Ventilation: yes ventilation is important. See if you can get a glass place to fit vents into the glass directly?

[-Totenkopf-]

Thanks for the replies thus far guys. The size of the animal I was looking at was around 60cm. They were getting up to around a half year old I think, so maybe they are a bit bigger then I made out.


I got a fluoro fitted up in there already. Currently it has a UV globe in it, but I do have a normal one as well. Even though I live in Queensland it can get quite cold where I live. Recently its been getting down to around 5 degrees some morning. Currently (~8pm) the ambient is about 12-15 degrees. I've been doing some testing and taking some measurements and currently the 'hot' end of the enclosure is around 32-33 degrees and the cold end is ~25 degrees. What sort of temperature gradient should I be looking for. I might replace the Philips R80 100w globe as you mentioned at the hot end with a red infrared one and as you said, just use the fluoro for lighting.

I will contact a glazier about cutting a hole in the glass for the vent, if that can be done that'd be sweet.

Cheers guys,

James.

[PhilK]

Yeah mate it's been getting down to 7 in the mornings here where I am. The hot end is still 32C or so under the lamp, and something like 23 in the far corner. That gives him a hot spot (where he currently is, digesting a rat) and a cool end for when he's had enough. My advice would definitely be to just have the one globe (for ease) and the fluro (for light). That's my set-up.

[-Totenkopf-]

You leave the heat lamp on full time I take it then?

Cheers,

James.

[PhilK]

Yeah but the thermostat is rigged up, and it kicked out twice today as it was a little warmer than it has been. Cool end stays relatively cool even in summer

[peterjohnson64]

Originally Posted by PhilK

I disagree. When my snake was a bub and I put him into his adult enclosure straight up (not being told otherwise) he ate just fine, explored alot, and was fine to handle. Though I did provide him with lots and lots of places to hide (making him feel secure)

Phil, you did well there. However, I remember talking to Dr Robert Johnson (www.reptilevet.com.au) at length during the Mac Herps expo. He said that by far the most common reason for snakes being bought into his ptactice was a result of people keeping little snakes in big cages. Fair enough, you provided adequate hides (and of course this will work or they would all die in the wild) but unfortunately most people want to "see" their little snakes and want to hold them all the time so they dont give them the same sort of care as you (correctly) did. Even with all the advice under the sun they still wont do as they are told. Also, is your enclosure open on all sides or just the front. This will also have an impact as the snake doesnt really know he is behind glass.

It is still therefore advised by most breeders and keepers to put baby snakes in tub like enclosures. Yes, it can work the other way, but you can also smoke all your life and live to 90.

[PhilK]

Originally Posted by peterjohnson64

Fair enough, you provided adequate hides (and of course this will work or they would all die in the wild) but unfortunately most people want to "see" their little snakes and want to hold them all the time so they dont give them the same sort of care as you (correctly) did. Even with all the advice under the sun they still wont do as they are told. Also, is your enclosure open on all sides or just the front. This will also have an impact as the snake doesnt really know he is behind glass.

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. I meant more to tell him that he doesn't need to abandon his enclosure, but if it has plenty of hides to make the snake feel secure it can be OK. I agree that if you don't provide the little fella with places to run away to he would become stressed, this is why I made sure that Scurvy had two exoterra hides plus numerous boxes and toilet rolls etc etc lying around.

Also my enclosure is only glass on the front, which would've played a part..