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07-May-08, 08:46 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: Gold Coast | | | | A diamond x coastal is a hybrid (illegal to breed in some states). However a diamond coastal intergrade is a naturally occurring animal which happens because the ranges of the two sub species cross over and therefore a coastal carpet slowly turns into a diamond as you travel further south. |
07-May-08, 08:50 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-08 Location: On the wild side Gender:  | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooglabah  okay you've all made fair points and as for keeping our snakes pure bred that isnt that hard and there will always be pureists out there breeding pure breeds | Not rying to start a debate about this (as we all know it's been done umpteen times before) but the problem with that statement is that yes, it works in theory but then there will be those "dodgy dealers" who will be selling hybrids as pures and after that snake has been bred to one other and so on and so on, even these "purists" are likely to end up with some thing that isn't 100% pure unknowingly(it might look pure but have a little bit of something else in it a few generations back).
Again, look to the states... there are plenty of herpers over there that are interested in keeping some pure Aussie species, but even they will tell you in a number of species they are not that easy to come buy. I have spoken to a number of US keeper who would love to keep pure diamonds but although the crosses are a dime a dozen, the pures aren't that easy to come by, and that's just one example.
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07-May-08, 08:59 PM
|  | Invert nut Subscriber | Join Date: Oct-05 Location: QLD Gender:  | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyne_Jones A diamond x coastal is a hybrid (illegal to breed in some states). However a diamond coastal intergrade is a naturally occurring animal which happens because the ranges of the two sub species cross over and therefore a coastal carpet slowly turns into a diamond as you travel further south. | intergrades are not hybrids in anyway, they are not derrived from natural hybrids, all they are is a form of morelia spilota
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07-May-08, 09:04 PM
|  | Sdaji Subscriber | Join Date: Jun-04 Location: Victoria | | | |
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07-May-08, 09:08 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: May-08 Location: Victoria Age/Gender: 20 | | | | probably none cuz no reaserch will have been done into it. |
07-May-08, 09:08 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: May-05 Location: Sydney | | | | i cant beleive im about to post in another one of these threads but hell, here goes....
some people like there animals to be of pure locality, and some are just happy to know they have a pure subspecies of carpet, i am one of these keepers. then you have the hybrids.... being somebody that doesnt think its good i still understand that some people dont mind hybrids and some actively and intentionally keep, breed and im sure promote these animal, thats all good and well, i just dont support this. i think one of the bigest issues is that people dont support hybridisation and they instantly go on the attack when they hear the word. the second big issue is those dodgy dealers that do actively keep these animals and sell them as things they arent, this results in alot of distrust in the industry, even when buying off good dealers people must show caution some times.
my argument is, is that the pure animal imo look far better. i know people see some nicer hybrids on OS sites but the pictures you are generally seeing are the one good example of hundres of animal being kept, so generally they come out very average and drab. each to there own, but this argument will go on forever because you will always have multiple opinions on the issue.  |
07-May-08, 09:09 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: Jan-07 Location: Gold Coast | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet intergrades are not hybrids in anyway, they are not derrived from natural hybrids, all they are is a form of morelia spilota | Thats what i was trying to explain... |
07-May-08, 09:11 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: May-08 Location: Victoria Age/Gender: 20 | | | | lol |
07-May-08, 09:13 PM
| | Regular Member | Join Date: May-08 Location: Victoria Age/Gender: 20 | | | | fair nuff i think we can let this one die now |
08-May-08, 07:30 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Dec-07 Location: NSW Age/Gender: 32 | | | | so y dont we try and breed different morphs of the same species of our carpets and get different looking ones like the yanks do |
08-May-08, 07:58 PM
|  | Custom Enclosures Subscriber | Join Date: Sep-06 Location: Newcastle | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyne_Jones A diamond x coastal is a hybrid (illegal to breed in some states). However a diamond coastal intergrade is a naturally occurring animal which happens because the ranges of the two sub species cross over and therefore a coastal carpet slowly turns into a diamond as you travel further south. | Big guy
You actually get sick of this thread coming back month after month, and no one ever seems to listern, but I will try to sort this out again, specialy for the beginners.
Hybrids. Hybrids are not natually occurring animals, but are continally created by irresponsable keepers. This is were one species like a Diamond is bred to a Carpet for example. The young are just mongrels and this practice is ILLEGAL in most states of Australia. These are cross species.
Intergrades. For some reason people think intergrades have occurred natually in the wild were somehow, many years ago, a Diamond bred with a Carpet where their borders mixed. If you are in this group you are also wrong.
Let the class begin. I will use the Carpet Python as it has the best known intergrades. The Eastern Carpet Python,(morelia spilota) according to DNA evidence is the same species wether it be the PNG, Top End, Cape York, Jungle, Coastal, Murray/Darling or Diamond. As the origional ancesters of this species moved into Australia and spread out around the eastern states, it has had to adapt to different climatic and geographical areas. The result of these changes have left us with the distinct subspecies that are listed above.
Nowhere in Australia is there a area where one subspecies just magically turned into the next. This was a suttle change, and in most areas it took many hundreds of kilometers for the changes to fully occur. These buffer zones between the 2 distinct sub species are known as the intergrade zones.
The best known of these is found in mid coast NSW. Starting just north of Coffs Harbour the Coastal Carpet starts it's transformation into the Diamond Python which finally fully appears at around Newcastle and extends to just over the Vic border. When looking at morelia spilota found in the area from Coffs to Newcastle you can see they share both charactoristics. The closer to Coffs, the more they resemble the Carpet that they started from. The closer to Newcastle, the more they resemble the Diamond that they are slowly turning into. The prettiest I have seen in this area occurr around Port Macquarie, and IMO can be far prettier than any Diamond i have ever seen, as well as being far more hardier in Captivity
Even though morelia spilota are deemed the same species by DNA, each subspecies can still be identified by slight variations in the DNA. This also includes the intergrades which have been found to differ from their origionals.
The best thing people can do to learn is to get off their computors, get into a car and travell around Australia and actually learn where you favourite species are found and to look a natual changes as they occur. |
08-May-08, 08:08 PM
| | | | The only reason you won't accept whats been given is cause you owna hybrid, all hybrid owners try to find justice in keeping and breeding the species, just cause they couldn't affordt the real deal. |
08-May-08, 08:11 PM
|  | Willia6 fan Subscriber | Join Date: Jun-06 Location: Victoria Gender: | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by waikare so y dont we try and breed different morphs of the same species of our carpets and get different looking ones like the yanks do | That's what most people here do, the mongrel lovers like to take shortcuts though. 
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