Aussie Pythons and Snakes

Slateman · Original Poster #1 08-Jan-06, 07:54 PM

I noticed in forums that people are not sure if is safe to feed rat freshly dead by heat stroke.
I am saving my rats if I find them straight after they died. When I can feel that they body is still soft and know that one hour ago rat was still live, I freez them and feed my snakes with them.

it would be nice to hear opinion from other herpers on this. Mabe I am doing wrong thing, and taking to much risk. I am doing this for years with no trouble.

boa · #2 08-Jan-06, 08:04 PM

I personally think it's fine and can't really think of any reason not to use them if they have only been dead an hour or so. The animal died because it got too hot, it's didn't die of a disease or virus. Pythons eat carrion in the wild that could have been dead for who knows how long.

Hix · #3 08-Jan-06, 08:35 PM

Agreed - I don't see any problems with it. I'd be feeding 'em out straight away.

Hix

Slateman · Original Poster #4 08-Jan-06, 08:46 PM

Thanks boys. I have about 10 kilo of rats in freezer after 1st of January. They will be gone soon.

herptrader · #5 08-Jan-06, 08:53 PM

We were away during the 43C day in Melbourne and so could not do our normal bring all the rodents into the air conditioned comfort of the house. When we returned on New Years daythey all looked fine and nothing smelled off, had plenty of water etc. but today I cleaned out all them out I found a couple that did not make it. Interestingly they were either buried in the the shavings or eaten. I believe they eat the dead to "clean up" or bury their dead for the same reason.
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foxysnake · #6 08-Jan-06, 09:05 PM

I have had a few rats die from heat but just threw them away - they wern't stiff or anything but could've possibly been dead for an hour or two. I personally chose not to feed them to the reptiles cos, - if it's hot enough to kill rats, it's too hot to feed snakes; - because I didn't know exactly when the rats died (the heat can kepp them 'soft' for a couple of hours before they stiffen), it's quite possible that they coud've already started decomposing internally. Doing either (so I've been warned) can be nasty for the snakes, something about the gases in the rats belly expanding and turning toxic inside the snake while its trying to digest it, and the snake can die. As I said this is just what I do, each to their own I guess!

boa · #7 08-Jan-06, 09:11 PM

You are quite right, if you aren't comfortable doing then don't BUT I find this statement a little odd 'if it's hot enough to kill rats, it's too hot to feed snakes' how exactly does it affect the snake because the rat died of the heat ? As I said pythons will eat dead animals they come across in the wild and also how long do people leave rats and mice sitting around when they have been thawed out before they are fed ?
I do agree though, if it suits you not to do then best not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxysnake

I have had a few rats die from heat but just threw them away - they wern't stiff or anything but could've possibly been dead for an hour or two. I personally chose not to feed them to the reptiles cos, - if it's hot enough to kill rats, it's too hot to feed snakes; - because I didn't know exactly when the rats died (the heat can kepp them 'soft' for a couple of hours before they stiffen), it's quite possible that they coud've already started decomposing internally. Doing either (so I've been warned) can be nasty for the snakes, something about the gases in the rats belly expanding and turning toxic inside the snake while its trying to digest it, and the snake can die. As I said this is just what I do, each to their own I guess!

herptrader · #8 08-Jan-06, 09:25 PM

There are quite a number of instances recorded of snakes eating road kill and other items that have obviously been long dead and well exposed to summer heat. I cannot imagine any "toxic" build up hat could possibly be a danger to them.

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foxysnake · #9 08-Jan-06, 09:54 PM

[quote="boa"]You are quite right, if you aren't comfortable doing then don't BUT I find this statement a little odd 'if it's hot enough to kill rats, it's too hot to feed snakes' how exactly does it affect the snake because the rat died of the heat ? As I said pythons will eat dead animals they come across in the wild and also how long do people leave rats and mice sitting around when they have been thawed out before they are fed ?
I do agree though, if it suits you not to do then best not to.

Hey Boa, I don't know if you are a registered user in the site ATR or not, but if you are ask Paul what happened to his snakes when they digested rodents which turned out to be rotten (bought from a petshop frozen). I think you misinterpreted me, what I meant was if it is hot enough to kill a rat, you shouldn't be feeding your snake anything at all untill the weather is a bit cooler. I can't really explain any better, as it hasn't happened to me, I know it happened to Paul and a few other breeders - they had to put needles into the pythons belly, into the rat and withdraw all the gas build up inside the rat, - he also lost a few snakes that he got to too late. Apparently it is quite a nasty death for a snake, and because of this I won't - feed my snakes in extreme heat, - and I won't feed heat-killed rats period.

boa · #10 09-Jan-06, 08:03 AM

My animals live in air conditioned comfort so would never encounter these problems.

Pythoninfinite · #11 09-Jan-06, 08:13 AM

Sure, on the odd occasion snakes will eat carrion on the road or wherever they find it, but in the wild snakes have to indulge in risky behaviour every time they eat, usually just subduing their prey is a risk to them. As an ex-professional taxidermist of 40 years experience, I know that heat killed rodents are decomposing from the minute they die in 40 degree heat, and do present a great risk as a food item, unless you are there at the moment of death to collect or chill it. Although it is "usually" OK, and nothing bad happens, when it does, you will regret it for a long time...

When you feed a snake a large meal during a heatwave, the food animal decomposes quicker than the gastric juices can deal with the bacteria produced, resulting in bloating in some cases, and food poisoning in others. If the snake is lucky, it will regurge the offending item without harm, if not, it will die. Feeding an animal that is already partly rotten just increases the risk. As a general rule, I wouldn't feed my snakes anything that isn't fresh enough for me to eat myself... not that I'm big on rodents for dinner.

Save your heat-killed stuff for your lacies and other big monitors, they're genuine carrion eaters and their guts can cope with it. JM2C...

Jamie.

ad · #12 09-Jan-06, 08:59 AM

I totally agree with Foxysnake and Pythoninfinite.
You would need rocks in your head to use a rodent that died in the heat.
If it is hot enough to kill them, it is hot enough for them to decompose very quickly.

How clean is everyones substrate that has rats die?
Dirty substrate creates heat like a compost and kills them a lot quicker.

For the cost of a rat you are risking a lot imo - throw em out.
Ad

boa · #13 09-Jan-06, 09:09 AM

It's like I said I think it's very much a personal thing, some do it and some don't. My monitors eat most of them. I haven't had many die from the heat, most I have throw out because I haven't known how long they were dead but a few I have fed as they were only dead a very short time. I have had a couple of mice that blew up like balloons and they went straight in the bin.
Anyway it's just another one of those subjects where it's split right down the middle, no-one is right and no-one is wrong. I'm just off outside to shake these rocks out of my head.

ad · #14 09-Jan-06, 09:39 AM

Monitors are ok but I still wouldnt risk that - Why - to save the $2 for the rat cost?
For the rat to die from heat - What kills it? all their internal organs would be completely stuffed AT the time of death, Every minute past that point it decomposes rapidly because of the heat that killed it and the organs are already majorly damaged which would speed it up more.
If you were so quick to catch it 'just after dying' then you should have been able to save it in the first place. If you know its going to be that hot - Look after your rats better - The deaths can be prevented.
Not directed at you Boa - and people can do it all they want with their animals - I wouldnt in a blue fit though.
Dont shake too hard though - the great wall of china is already built!! lol
Cheers
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boa · #15 09-Jan-06, 09:48 AM

I think it's maybe a bit harsh to say it can be prevented, 99% of our rats and mice were and are fine and we all get the odd anaimal die. My rodent shed is now pretty well cool(ish). It isn't a matter of saving $2 or any amount of money in my case, it's just I hate waste and if I see a freshly dead rodent the monitors get it and as has been stated monitors cope because their guts are made to deal with carrion.
You need to come home, you've been up north too long