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08-Aug-07, 07:23 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane, Toowong Age/Gender: 20  | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue  amelainistic is another term fo an albino in reptiles, they mean the same thing just different word.
Albinos donot lack ALL pigment at all, just melainin. | If this is true (amelanistic = albino) a completely green snake is an albino, as it has no melanin. This is incorrect, so no, they don't mean the same thing.
Obviously it doesn't lack all pigment, that was a silly thing for me to say. My point was simply that an absence of al melanin does not make an animal an albino. |
08-Aug-07, 07:28 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | | a lot of gtp do carry and show black/brown pigment, ie melainin infact i think that in just green coloured gtp there is also under lying melainin pigment in them but it is not visable.? |
08-Aug-07, 07:33 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane, Toowong Age/Gender: 20 | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue a lot of gtp do carry and show black/brown pigment, ie melainin infact i think that in just green coloured gtp there is also under lying melainin pigment in them but it is not visable.? |  You know what I mean, don't get picky. I'm saying that just because an animal has no melanin, it isn't an albino. GTP was just an example. |
08-Aug-07, 07:36 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Nov-05 Location: QLD | | | | but its not being picky?, most snakes that look to have no melainin do actually carry the pigment in under laying tones,(if thats the correct way to descrbe it?), correct me if im wrong, but i think with all but a very few species, this is the case. |
08-Aug-07, 07:45 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane, Toowong Age/Gender: 20 | | | | Even if it was the case.. There would still be some snakes that have no melanin. (Or other animals)... This doesn't make them albinos. Either way, albinos are not defined by the lack of only black pigment.. but a number of other pigments too. |
08-Aug-07, 08:09 PM
|  | Sapere aude Sponsor | Join Date: Oct-06 Location: ACT | | | | Albanism is a lack of melanin, that is it. that is the definition, there is no point argueing about it .
I think that you will also find that most animals that endure natural sunlight will have melanin within the skin as well, regardless of it being expressed ina quantifiably amount to be seen as black.
SO
an ALBINO lacks melanin, end of story.
Dont have to believe me, that is just the definition |
08-Aug-07, 08:11 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane, Toowong Age/Gender: 20 | | | | Oh, fair enough... I thought it was other pigments too. Learn something new every day!
So what is the difference between an albino and an amelanistic animal? |
08-Aug-07, 08:15 PM
|  | Roadkill Subscriber | Join Date: Aug-05 Location: Western Sydney Age/Gender: 25 | | | | PhilK, an albino is defined as being 'incapable of producing melanin' (black pigment). There are only 3 colours that a snake 'produces'; they are black, yellow and red. An albino only has 2 colours with which to produce it's colour - red and yellow. A hypo bredli, or a GTP as suggested above, does still have melanin, although the black may not be seen just by looking at the snake, it is in there as TrueBlue describes as "pigment in under laying tones". As an example, have a look at a hypo Darwin Carpet, then have a look at an albino Darwin Carpet. Despite both having no visible black, there is a clear difference between the two.
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08-Aug-07, 08:17 PM
| | Sapere aude Sponsor | Join Date: Oct-06 Location: ACT | | | | As said, nothing, amelanistic simply means lack of melanin, and albino means lack of melanin.
The confusion appears to come from the fact that we associate the all white etc with Albinism. This is true in humans as we dont have other colour produce cells like xanthophores for example.
So that is why an albino snake will have yellow colouring.
The complete white or lack of all pigments is leucism or leucistic. Like that awesome looking leucistic ball python that gets around everyso often
I think it is just a confusion due to the use. |
08-Aug-07, 08:25 PM
| | Subscriber | Join Date: Feb-07 Location: Brisbane, Toowong Age/Gender: 20 | | | | Oooohhh. Thanks for that guys hahaha. Don't I feel like a dolt for avidly arguing a completely wrong point of view!
So snakes appear darkr etc because they can "mix" the red with melanin, for example, to make a darker shade? But amelanistic and albino pythons will appear yellowy? |
08-Aug-07, 08:27 PM
| | Roadkill Subscriber | Join Date: Aug-05 Location: Western Sydney Age/Gender: 25 | | | | Spot on mate.
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08-Aug-07, 08:33 PM
|  | Subscriber | Join Date: Jan-03 Location: NTH QLD | | | | There's also a few different types of albinism or amelanisim such as tyrosinaise negative and tyrosinaise positive,then there's the paradox albinos and lavenders,actually it's pretty rare for most albino reptiles to be all white like the olives end up after 4-5 years of being yellow as well.Then there's leucistics a total lack of melanin except for the eyes which i've heard in the case of the ;eucistic maccys caught and handed in having blue eyes and some leucistics have black eyes.Now there's the new so called paradox leucistic jaguar recently bred,really interesting stuff!
I think there is without a doubt that hypomelanism is a science as such and comes down to genetics.I honestly think the true hypo carpet lines are gentically hypo not just the odd light animal in a clutch here and there.The proof is if the offspring from hypos produce a certain percentage of hypos making them genetic being either recessive or dominant whatever the case may be.I still see some absolute screamer young hypos and seen a few stunning adults with bugger all black but most still tend to have a lot of black and look reasonably ordinary although i love the leopard type look some get and with time and selective breeding they sure will produce more new morphs for us carpt lovers.Just like anything,jungles.stripes,jags etc you get the good ones and not so good ones but if you consistantly breed hypo animals that are definitely proven to be genetic and they hold their colours witrh little black as adults there is a definite science to it.I think Trueblue has the best genetic hypos around,i see a lot of others get passed off as hypo because they're light but even some natuarally occuring animals look hypo as adults,i get them where i live with very little black but it's just their natural colour1When you've locked onto a trait as Trueblue has and produce consistantly anaimals that are definitely hypomelanistic and have worked out the genetics it's simple from there and just needs selective line breeding to produce what your trying to produce.Definitely a science to it!!
Would love to see some adult or young true hypo pics if anyone has any?
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08-Aug-07, 09:10 PM
|  | Regular Member | Join Date: Jul-07 Location: Western Suburbs, Vic | | | BROWNS i just found a thread about Jags and they are amazing!!! JAG pics
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14-Sep-07, 12:57 PM
| | Roadkill Subscriber | Join Date: Aug-05 Location: Western Sydney Age/Gender: 25 | | | | An albino lacks the ability to produce any melanin at all.
A hypo simply has 'reduced' melanin, but even if you can see no black at all on a hypo, it DOES still produce melanin. That is why a Grade A hypo Carpet does not look the same as an albino would. Melanin is not only used to produce the black in a snake's appearance, it is also used to produce other colours of various shades, when it is mixed with the red and yellow pigments that snakes also produce.
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