Insurance

[adbacus]

I know this has been discussed before, but with Agamidae's and Neil Sonneman's losses this year, plus the many others that are not mentioned on a day to day basis, NPWS and the government should intervene to have insurance policies for our collections.

It's crap that we are told that a it is hard to insure a snake as it can be kept hidden at a friend's place whilst we claim insurance. Well in that case Tag our herps like that of dogs and cats.

Here we are supporting Native Fauna, and many herpers spend a lot of time, care factor and money in establishing collections. I believe that true herp owners abide by government laws especially when they at times can be restrictive in this hobby. We ensure our animals are looked after and registered.

NPWS and the government need to assist more in looking after our interests.

If non-native destructive fauna - Cats can be insured, so should our herps.And that's my UDL (Unauthorised Discharge of Logic) for today

[boa]

A couple of things, it is not up to NPWS or the Government to help with insurance, there is no reason they would get involved. If we choose to keep animals and are unable to get insurance then it is our risk. Imagine if you imported an exotic car and no insurance company would touch you because you were too high a risk, should the Government step up and take it on ?
I'm not entirely sure why we can't get insurance here as it has been available in the UK for many many years. It may come down to the economy of scale, there just aren't enough of us. It isn't a case of us ripping the insurance companies off as that happens with ALL insurance.

[adbacus]

Understandable Boa - though I can't remember the thread, but someone actually researched why we can't get our herps insured and the only answer they got from my understanding is that they would be ripped off for reasons stated above above and that the agencies do not understand guidelines for herp keeping. Especially between states and territories. If NPWS could assist with those guidelines of ownership and provide a way to assist in the monitoring i.e.'the return system' currently used and a conbination of tagging, it actually shows that there are controls in place in management and ownership, that give agencies a reliable indication in order to protect our hobbies.

[boa]

I'm not sure any of that would have any bearing on getting reptile insurance. The example I gave in the UK shows that you don't need animals to be tagged or indeed licensed to be able to insure them.

Best way to insure your herps at this stage is with a good security system.

[krusty]

it would be great if we could,i would have it for shaw........

[adbacus]

Originally Posted by boa

I'm not sure any of that would have any bearing on getting reptile insurance. The example I gave in the UK shows that you don't need animals to be tagged or indeed licensed to be able to insure them.

Yes I know and agree that the UK has a very good system in place, but with us literally being a 'hatchling industry', with so many rules in place, and the costs involved in setup it is of no wonder why there is no insurance backing.

What I am trying to say is that if we have more refined guidelines and support from state NPWS to clarify management and monitoring systems in place(this may help reduce incidence of exotic ownership by not being able to insure anything other than Aussie Herps); used hand in hand with a sliding cost scale based on species, age and outlay costs (so people cannot insure a common childreni for $1million), then it may help out in protecting those of us with sizeable expensive collection of herps. - i.e. Marc and Neil. They have invested time and money to develop good breeding stock and improve breeding lines. The scum that have taken their snakes will not be able to easily dispose of such stock. I don't aim this at specialist keepers but also at basic to average keepers that have also taken the time and money to have their herps.

[boa]

Firstly I don't think an insurance company would contemplate insuring illegal exotics so it wouldn't have any effect on exotic numbers.
All companies would insure and animal for what it was worth on an individual basis, there would be no possibility to insure a cheap animal for far more than it was worth. While I do agree that in many ways we are a fledgling hobby we have been breeding reptiles here for a great many years and I am not sure what guidelines could be introduced to help insurance companies. I'm not sure they would be interested in the laws relating to keeping, their interest would be limited to the value of the animal and the risk factors as far as desirability and maybe the previous history of the owner.

[peterjohnson64]

Funny thing. I put up a post about a month ago asking for expressions of interest in insurance. I have a broker putting a proposal together with Lloyds of London. Only 2 people replied. 1 to say they are interested and the other saying they had looked into it before and it was about 10% of the value of the collection.

So yes, it can be done. But to insure a $50,000 collection would cost about $5,000 per annum. It is like insuring a diamond ring or a WRX. Very expensive. From there its our call.

[MoreliaMatt]

how could you hide a snake at a mates place whilst saying it was stolen.... its all in your record books, if you put in there that it was stolen, and then when they leave you have a snake off license.... not that smart i dont think

[scotchbo]

Hiding a snake at your mate's house is such a cop out you can hide your car, boat, motorbike,the content's of your house, your dog you can hide anything that you have insured very easily. what a cop out that answer is lol

[boa]

I must admit I have never heard that reply from an insurance company as a reason not to insure.

[scotchbo]

me either it sound's a bit suss to me

[glacey]

Yeah that's not an excuse that an insurance company would use - they'd just calculate the potential for fraud into the premium.

The simple problem is that there isn't a market to justify the coverage. With a limited customer base, it would only take a couple of large claims to wipe out any profit. I used to work in the insurance industry and we looked at pet insurance - just not a viable option given that there is bigger profits in selling car, house insurance etc.

[benji]

Hi,

I work for an insurance broker. Although I dont deal with general home and contents insurances it is good to point out:

- Why would an insurance company introduce a product with such a small market? It would cost a hell of a lot for these companies to design a product that purely protected a reptile from theft. The risk of insurance fraud would be far greater than your standard contents insurance purely and simply because your t.v or stero can get between the 10mm gap in the window and disappear indefinately.

- Has anyone contacted their home and contents insurer with this query?

- To appoint an assessor for loss/ calculating sums insured would be very difficult. Its hard to pin point the value of reptiles, let alone reptiles Australia wide. In Perth we pay $400 for a juvenile stimsons. Over east I've seen them advertised for $250. So now we have a problem of one person being able to assess the value of a reptile, where, on the other side of the country its worth almost double. This also does not take into account an animals aesthetic value. Beauty cannot be quantitively measured.

Just in reply to Peter Johnson. I've heard people expressing problems gaining public liability cover for reptile displays. The only insurer to my knowledge with a product that is available to reptile displays is Lloyds of London.
I have a phone number of a broker that may associated with them, I can provide details if people wish.