opinions please :)

[notechistiger]

If I were to allow my python to maternall incubate, how would I keep the humidity up in the enclosure? A second water bowl very close to the heat?

Also, is the female usually heavily gravid (so that it's very easy to see - as easy as it can be with spotteds) when she has her pre-lay shed?

~ notechistiger.

[richardsc]

maternal incubation isnt as easy as u think,u still need to keep the eggs humid,but also keep it dry enough for the females to incubate them as well,its quite involved keeping conditions right for them in a small cage that most pythons reside in,also think in nature,the female can find the spot she likes,and shes got a heck of a lot of choices there,now put the same female in the dehydration chamber we call her enclosure and u take away alot of the elements they have available in the wild,something to think about there,as your not just putting your eggs at risk but also the females health,the use of an incubator lets the female get back on food quicker,and alot more chance of her breeding successfully again the following season,also if u set up your incubator properly and keep the conditions correctly in there,if u have healthy eggs they should hatch sucsessfully,trying maternal incubation because u didnt have much luck using an incubator isnt the answer,but each to there own

[Chimera]

Steve Comber gave a great presentation at CARA on maternal incubation. In this presentation he stated that there was no real changes to his keeping strategy (except the laybox) and he achieved a high rate of success.

I put my foot in it with a poorly worded question (damned head cold, messes up your thoughts), the question I was trying to ask was for a comparison of the stress caused by breeding in consecutive years with maternal incubation. Surely these stresses would be similar given that the female would be running at full heat and not feeding for roughly 2 months.

[richardsc]

notecris,they usually find a humid spot and make a humid nest in the wild,they wrap around the eggs creating a humid environment for the eggs,when it gets cooler than they like they shiver,if it gets to warm they loosen there wrap on the clutch,even leave the clutch and bask returning to it when the see fit,like i said theres alot of variables with maternal incubation,alot of areas to cover,and alot more stress put on the female,why do u think the majority of breeders artificially incubate,most only use maternal incubation to see how there females do it,not because they think its more successful or a better way to do it,also to answer an earlier question,when eggs hatch from a maternal incubation the female does what she does in nature,she loosens her coils from the clutch and lets the little buggers hatch,when they all hatch,she nicks off as do the babies,they all go there seperate ways,the females goal now is to find lots of food,she is really in need of some condition as incubating her eggs has used alot of her nourishment up and with winter fast approaching,she really needs tucker or she could succumb

[alex_c]

personally when i breed my snakes i will be using my incubator. due to more controllable conditions ie: temp and humidity, and also due to it being easier to keep an eye on the eggs and remove duds etc.and the fact the female can go straight back to eating and regaining the condition she lost is great.

[richardsc]

hi mate,its not just the 2 months of not eating,look at when they breed,through the cool months,so alot dont feed before mating begins,when they are containing eggs,then the 2 months of incubation they average during maternal incubation,then when the babys hatch its closer to the time they shut down again for winter,take diamond pythons for example,but tropical reptiles to with the dry season fast approaching,reproduction takes a toll on there bodys,what they eat before winter one year will determine if they have enough condition to reproduce the next season,hence why alot of wild pythons dont breed every season,as they dont put on the condition in time to have succsive years of reproduction,in captivity,u get at least 2 months extra to put that condition back on the females if u artificially incubate the eggs,so u can keep your females in better condition,seems like a no brainer to me,lol,if u can do anything to help your female keep her condition on,wouldnt u think thats the better option,im not saying maternal incubation is risky,just puts more stress on the female,and also can limit your chances of breeding the following year,ect

[lycanthropica]

slightly off topic and not having a go at anyone but......
i have been interested in snakes for a long time and my dad kept diamonds before the licensing started.

it scares me and frustrates me taht as soon as someone gets a snake they just want to breed it.

i only have two snakes and i have only had them for a week.
i researched for about year before getting one and now am addicted like most reptile keepers.

i would love to eventually breed snaked and you love to breed some special bredli's with LOTS of black but by no means am i going to go out and grab the next bredli i can find and breed it. i understand that it takes time and careful selection.

it just upsets me to see people saying "oh i only have a jungle and a diamond, can i breed them cos it's close to breeding season and i don't ahev any better animals"
if people breed these and there is no market because the are crossed and or ugly animals what will happen to them? it's ok to rehome cute mutt puppies but snakes would be a bit harder.

anyway not having a go at anyone
just something that is contstantly on my mind.
delete it if it's too off topic

[Hooglabah]

okay so incubaters/maternal wich ever how the hell do you get the eggs away from mummie without getting your self mauled??

[Hooglabah]

i mean i don't imagine shed be to impressed with you trying to take her eggs away

[Chimera]

richardsc, your posts are a bit difficult to read and could probably use a few full stops.

Your points form the crux of the argument for artificial incubation, and I am more then aware that there is more then just 2 months that breeding females wouldn't be feeding. I was merely pointing out differences between the 2 methods. Part of the argument for maternal incubation is that we shouldn't breed year-on-year and that the time taken for the female to put condition back is natural reproductive rate limiting.

[Fossilman]

Originally Posted by Hooglabah

i mean i don't imagine shed be to impressed with you trying to take her eggs away

Perhaps taking the eggs away would stress the snake as much as going without food for a few months?

[reptilesDownUnder]

Watching a female python brood her eggs is one of the most memorable captive reptile experiences I've had. It's like having your very own Attenborough documentary right in front of your eyes.

Here's a vid of a coastal carpet 'shivering' on her eggs.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOu8Z_YiRAM]Brooding female[/ame]

Stewart

[notechistiger]

Lol, Lycanthropica, it's almost like your trying to start another hybrid thread

richardsc, I never said that I wanted to maternally incubate because I had no luck with an incubator. How on earth did you figure that? Also, I'm not sure if you meant it that why is sounded, but some of your posts sounded a little condescending. I'm quite sure that the majority of people in this forum (who love snakes specifically) with over 50 posts would know how a female incubates her eggs. (Not trying to step on anybody's toes.)

My question wasn't really answered though. Would it help her if I put a second water bowl or something of the sort near the heat. I know that too much humidity can kill eggs, however, my enclosure for her never seems to get that humid now, with only one water bowl. I had the though because I put a second one in when she's about to shed, and she's never had a problem with it, as supposed to her having shedding problems beforehand.

reptilesDownUnder, that's so awesome. I find it fascinating that even though they cannot produce heat for themselves, that they can do so for their offspring.

~ notechistiger.