Strange Death of Two Pythons

[earthmother]

Hello Nat again,

Did you have thick enough substrata or do you think the UTH was faulty?

[nuthn2do]

I'm with the dodgy feeder brigade. Sounds like it could be secondary poisoning from brodifacoum (Talon, Havoc).
OR check with your food supplier that the feeders had not been treated for parasites lately with ivermectin or selamectin. Both these can cause paralysis and death in reptiles (there's a withholding period)
Only one way you'll know for sure
Craig

[Fuscus]

Originally Posted by earthmother

...Yes, Afric I agree. For peace of mind if nothing else. If you call NPWS they will pick the Snakes up from you and take them away for a necropsy...

That rotten fish is stealing my thunder again

[earthmother]

Whoops, yes, and like Fuscus said "get an autopsy done"
lol Fuscus - are you keeping tally. I am.
So far it's Afric 453 Fuscus close behind on 452. Up your game Fuscy.

I wonder if I should have called them to come get my decomposing turtle. Too late, I'm keeping it. I'd post a recent photo of it, but you'd all have nightmares.
Inny has a strange interest in it ( it seems to bother him ) so I'm waiting for his birthday to send him a 'special' gift.

nuthin2do, that was very interesting, do you know how long the holding period is?
Em x

[nuthn2do]

do you know how long the holding period is?

EM
The withholding for animals treated for human consumption is about 6 weeks, but it would only be a guess as to how long the period would be for a reptiles. Best to probably only treat the breeders, then there could still be a problem of it passing through their milk in the first few weeks.
I gotta talk to the vet later so I'll ask about him.
Craig

[herptrader]

It is no doubt important for the remainder of your collection to determine why they died. Two of them dying at the same time is a bit scary if only a cooincidence.

I would be looking at what has changed and be thinking back around a year.
Have you had any additions to your collection during that time?
Have you changed your husbandry techniques at all?

Food source you have already answered. (I must say that this was not the first possible cause that came to my head.)

If a faulty heat mat was the problem they would not be dead on top of it, more likely the opposite with your pythons migrating to the cool end of the enclosure.

One possibility is if the heat mat failed and they had eaten recently then the food could go off in their gut and become toxic but even in this instance I would expect them to regugitate the food.

Healthy snakes will not just curl up and die because of environmental factors without first trying to find their own comfort level.

I would can consider an autopsy very important. If you do not have the "will" to do it now put them in the freezer until you change your mind.

Don't forget to share what you learn so that at least there is some benifit from your missfortune.

[peterescue]

I had a simiar thing occur. I lost a series of animals all from one bank of enclosures.
It turned out to be a bacterial infection in the gut which was traced back to day old chicks that had been stored in a freezer at the wildlife office. it turns out that they had been thawed not once but a few times. Now if I dont breed it, I dont feed it.
Peter

Good motto peterrescue

[nuthn2do]

could still be a problem of it passing through their milk in the first few weeks. I gotta talk to the vet later so I'll ask

Yep, from documentation traces of ivermectin/selamectin will be present in the mothers milk for approx the same period as the meat (6 weeks).

<<end professional opinion>>

So you'd have to wonder that if you'd treated a female rodent, then 3 weeks later she dropped a litter, those offspring would be exposed not only during her pregnancy but also continually up until they were weaned.
Not a problem usually with most animals, but with reptiles having a very low tolerance to these drugs it may be a health concern. Escpecially considering that young or small reptiles are going to be the ones eating these pinkies and fuzzies.

<<end paranoid rant>>