Wild Water Dragon in Melbourne!!

[jordo]

I was just walking along the moat at uni and found a nice big gippsland water dragon basking on the rocks, it was an adult male. I am amazed that it was here as I didn't know they occured this far out (Bundoora). He froze so I was able to catch him and check him out and he was in perfect condition, when I released him he "chased" my friends which was hilarious (sp?), all four of them just ran out of sight
hopefully now that its warming up I'll see a few snakes around here as well.
Has anyone else seen or heard of gippys in the city?
cheers

[junglepython2]

Never seen them in the city? Sure it's not an escapee? We have seen a Major Mitchell of late around Melb as well just to add to things you don't expect to see.

[Sdaji]

Apparently someone has been releasing them, I used to watch a couple of female water dragons which lived by the moat. I was often walking between the greenhouses and animal house area and the CESAR labs (in what used to be the senior genetics area) until mid last year when we relocated to Parkville. There was one female which lived under or near the bridge you cross between the health science building and the animal house area and another just around the corner which would sometimes hang out under the shipping crates near the smaller of the animal houses (nearer to the greenhouses). Water Dragons don't naturally occur anywhere near the Melbourne area, although a few populations now exist because of escapees, including one surprisingly close to the CBD. I considered catching the ones from the moat and giving them to the lost reptiles home, perhaps I should have. There is also a very dense population of feral turtles in the moat (native but non indigenous), as well as a dense population of Long-necked Turtles (which some claim are also not indigenous to the Melbourne area).

[elapid68]

Like John said, EWD's don't occur naturally around Melbourne but there are populations of them starting to pop up here and there. The Werribee River has a health population of them (and a Water Python, for those who remember)

[jordo]

Junglepython2- This one didn't look like a released captive, most captive water dragons I've seen have worn down noses but this was perfect.

Sdaji- this one was above the path that goes between the eagle bar and glenn college (right next to the moat), do you think they could become more established on campus, I wouldn't think they could change the ecosystem much if they did, what do you think? I was planning on talking to Brian about it to see what he thought.
I've also seen a long-neck in the moat outside of glenn college, what species are the "feral turtles" you mentioned? I will definately be keeping an eye out for more herps from now on.

[cris]

So is it bad that they are popping up in Melbourne?
Water dragons seem well suited to the city life here in brisbane they thrive in the most built up areas. The best looking eastern water dragon i have ever seen was at southbank(across the river from our CBD).

[jordo]

Well like sdaji said they aren't indigenous to Melbourne but I don't think they would upset the ecosystem much if at all.
Imagine if we were allowed to keep exotic reptiles, there would be populations poping up everywhere from escaped/abandoned pets.

Hopefully I can go back there and get some pics of him, he was such a nice specimen.

[Sdaji]

Not every captive Water Dragon is kept in poor enough conditions to give it a bad nose, but yes, it does seem that they're starting to breed in the moat. I haven't seen any near the Eagle Bar.

I can't understand why people say that something like a Water Dragon won't cause much change! Everything lives at the expense of something else. A Water Dragon needs to eat (anything it eats can't be eaten by anything else and anything it eats will die) and it defends a territory (it excludes other creatures from that area) ecologically speaking, these are not trivial things by any stretch of the imagination. The moat is hardly a natural ecosystem of massive conservation concern, so we don't need to frantically worry about the Water Dragons' effects there. No doubt they'll soon be in the wildlife reserve if they aren't already, and arguably that will be a big problem. As well as the extra food they might eat (they'll be taking frogs out of the wildlife reserve which will likely result in them becoming rare, compared to extremely common at the moment - but since those frogs are not local, that's not much of a problem either!), they might start eating things which usually go untouched - they can swim across the moat to the islands where birds breed in the absence of foxes and cats, where they may eat eggs and nestling water birds, just the first possibility to jump into my head.

To some extent, the Water Dragons will take over the niche currently occupied by Blue-tongued Lizards in the wildlife reserve, which will certainly have an affect on their population, perhaps neglibible, perhaps large. It is very speculative, but possibly the presence of Water Dragons could make the planned introduction of Dunnarts into the wildlife reserve impossible (to be honest, I don't think it would/will work anyway!).

If they are to become widely established along the Yarra (which seems entirely possible), it is entirely possible that they will cause significant problems.

The non local turtles in the moat are Emydura macquarii, there are squillions of them in there. On a day like today at this time of year (and at this time of day) you can sit by the moat just down from the Eagle Bar and you should be able to spot between about five and twenty within a minute. You might also see two or three Long-necked Turtles, but they seem to prefer the area near where you saw the dragon (or perhaps it is more a case of them having competition from the Short-Neckeds, which prefer the lower moat).

Some of the herps may be out of place, but it's a very cool campus! I miss studying and working there!

[jordo]

I'm yet to see a captive water dragon anywhere near the condition of this guy.
You raised some very good points there, I like them so I don't want them to go lol but it would probably be best to remove them. I might talk to an ecologist about this.

[cris]

This might be a stupid question but what stops the waterdragons at the end of their natural southern range? Is it the temperature, climate or something else?
If it is just the temperature wont their range expand anyway with global warming etc.
Also if its too cold down there for them wont there new range be limited to near the city?

IMO a captive water dragon should be in better condition than a wild one or at least equal. If your water dragon has nose damage you arnt looking after it very well as Sdaji points out.

[jordo]

Cris thats a good question I'm not sure why but I'll add that there is no proof yet they this population is successfully breeding, the one I saw may just be one of the originally released animals. But they have been bred in outdoor enclosures in Geelong and Ballarat that I know of so I don't think temperature is a limiting factor, maybe there is a geological barrier of some kind which prevents them from extending their range, could be water related?

I'm just pointing out that lots of captive WDs I've seen have had damaged noses, I am aware that lots are also fine but I'm talking in a general sense from ones that I've seen (I don't keep any at the moment either).

[herptrader]

I have seen "wild" ones at the zoo which is not far from the Uni. One of the "enclusure currently under repair" obviously had quite a colony living around it. It is quite conceivable that they could get from the Zoo... which had pretty good habitat, to the Uni.


My observations go back over 10 years so this is not a recent phenomenon.

[herptrader]

Originally Posted by jordo

Cris thats a good question I'm not sure why but I'll add that there is no proof yet they this population is successfully breeding, the one I saw may just be one of the originally released animals. But they have been bred in outdoor enclosures in Geelong and Ballarat that I know of so I don't think temperature is a limiting factor, maybe there is a geological barrier of some kind which prevents them from extending their range, could be water related?

I'm just pointing out that lots of captive WDs I've seen have had damaged noses, I am aware that lots are also fine but I'm talking in a general sense from ones that I've seen (I don't keep any at the moment either).

"Gippy" water dragons live in cooler temperature ranges (Gippsland and in the southern alps, eg: the Wonnongatta) than those found in Melbourne.