Continuation: Exporting Reptiles From Australia

[gillsy]

Longqi, I don't think you can compare Indonesia to Australia as far as poaching goes. First of all, labor is not as cheap over hear and collectors would be demanding much more than they do for example on Biak Island. With the price of diesel (A$1.53- / litre), it IS cheaper to breed than collect from the wild. Secondly, the prices for most reptiles are much higher here than in Indonesia and the European trading would quickly come to a grinding hold if they had to pay our prices for reptiles. Basically, Indonesia is a cheap world and Australia is an expensive one. JMO

[SIZE=3]But currently there are problems with wild caught animals in captivity, people going to poach animals and selling them in our domestic reptile market, [/FONT]

Really? Some poaching has been going on since primordial ooze and some will go on no matter what steps are being taken. But it's a drop in the ocean, I wouldn't say "currently there are problems".[/QUOTE]

Yeah I disagree with the cost of collection, I've covered 4000km's in four days, and saw probably $20k worth of animals. The fuel and car higher cost $1000.

[Red-Ink]

I think it would depend on the species, some species' wild population would be hit hard.. particularly the ones that are difficult to breed in captivity... Centrillian bluetounge and Shinglebacks fetch quite a high price over in the US centrals up to 10K and stumpies to 2k. Not that hard to find and quite abundant out there and not that easy or lack of breeders here.

[Dannyboi]

I think stumpies and blueys are pretty much poached all the time anyway what with them being exempt from permitting here it easy to say you bought it as you don't require any proof.
If they sell for a lot in the states then I would imagine they would be poached at massive levels in SA.

[Waterrat]

Yeah I disagree with the cost of collection, I've covered 4000km's in four days, and saw probably $20k worth of animals. The fuel and car higher cost $1000.

I see where you coming from but that was you holiday travel (I assume). It's different collecting to order.

[gillsy]

No these are just animals that would sell overseas, BHP's, Monitors (3/4 different types,) Woma's, Few different morelia. All the wanted stuff overseas.

[dpedwards08]

Yesterday's topic of the day was "disease". Today's topic is "poaching". What will be tomorrow's topic of the day? It sounds like you are just making excuses to reject a new idea, an idea that could bring millions of dollars to Australia's economy. Let's pretend that Australia did open it's boarders to commercial reptile exportation, and EXPORTATION only. Let's also pretend that every single reptile in Australia was collected and exported. Now let's throw in a little bit of reality into the mix, the reality that Europeans and Americans bred these exported Australian reptiles in captivity in a rather large abundance and created a healthy economic flow throughout these countries that gave average hard working people the opportunity to make a decent living at something they love to do and were able to provide a good life for their families. Wow, what a concept!

[solar 17]

one way around 99% of the problems of exporting and poaching for exporting would be to only allow the export of reptiles approx. 3-4 months of age, but before you jump down my throat l would have a "user/seller pays"
system where the breeder pays for a parks and wildlife inspection of their eggs then again as hatchies [with high quality digital photos] then an export ticket issued at three months after several feeds....no system would be perfect but this one would iron out a lot of the wrinkles.....solar 17 [Baden]

[Red-Ink]

Yesterday's topic of the day was "disease". Today's topic is "poaching". What will be tomorrow's topic of the day? It sounds like you are just making excuses to reject a new idea, an idea that could bring millions of dollars to Australia's economy. Let's pretend that Australia did open it's boarders to commercial reptile exportation, and EXPORTATION only. Let's also pretend that every single reptile in Australia was collected and exported. Now let's throw in a little bit of reality into the mix, the reality that Europeans and Americans bred these exported Australian reptiles in captivity in a rather large abundance and created a healthy economic flow throughout these countries that gave average hard working people the opportunity to make a decent living at something they love to do and were able to provide a good life for their families. Wow, what a concept!

Mate we are not making excuses.... as our values on our animals is more than the all mighty USD which is what you are using to pitch this idea to us (which after so many pages you are still using). We are discussing all possible negative effects of all out border opening. There are very few commercial breeders here in Australia so the fundamental attitude towards the animals is different. It is a hobby for us and only the passionate among us take it on. Our own government don't even like us keeping these creatures and merely tolerate it. As it is passion for us over $$$$ as none of us are commercial breeders but rather hobbyist the pitch of "millions" of dollars will fall on deaf ears. Why don't you tell us how it would be benificial for our animals rather than our pockets and we may listen a bit more carefully? We are not making money now on exporting and were fine with that, we don't really want to make money from reptile full time but merely enough to sustain our hobbies. Money for living is what jobs are for.

[gillsy]

Yesterday's topic of the day was "disease". Today's topic is "poaching". What will be tomorrow's topic of the day? It sounds like you are just making excuses to reject a new idea, an idea that could bring millions of dollars to Australia's economy. Let's pretend that Australia did open it's boarders to commercial reptile exportation, and EXPORTATION only. Let's also pretend that every single reptile in Australia was collected and exported. Now let's throw in a little bit of reality into the mix, the reality that Europeans and Americans bred these exported Australian reptiles in captivity in a rather large abundance and created a healthy economic flow throughout these countries that gave average hard working people the opportunity to make a decent living at something they love to do and were able to provide a good life for their families. Wow, what a concept!

You don't get, we aren't some small country. The negible effect it will have on our economy is not worth the possible effect our our wildlife. We make more from our seafood than we would ever selling a few snakes and on top of that, around the world there are more people breeding our pythons than here in Australia. Dude we don't need to sell snakes to make good life for peoples familes. I get your exportation only but you don't get we don't want to. There is no tangible economic benefit. We get more economic benefit from foreigners coming over to see how reptiles.

You need to stop stating this economic benefit, it's a very very weak argument, american's breed more of our snakes that we do. Anyway i'm over another ignorant american who probably thinks the queen sits in Australia, and that the moon rises our of the ocean.

We don't want it, it will never happen and frankly I think you need to research what our economy is really like. While your $ falls and ours reaches 25year highs.

Australia Economy | Economy Watch

[Octane]

To those who think that export would be an ongoing good money spinner for Australia. Think again once there are reasonable breeding numbers of desireable animals overseas why would there be a need to buy from Australia anymore?

The answer is there wouldn't be.
Refer to the quote from dpedwards08:-

"Now let's throw in a little bit of reality into the mix, the reality that Europeans and Americans bred these exported Australian reptiles in captivity in a rather large abundance and created a healthy economic flow throughout these countries that gave average hard working people the opportunity to make a decent living at something they love to do and were able to provide a good life for their families. Wow, what a concept!"

Above translated into Australian reality:

When Europeans and Americans get captive breeding programs going of what they have obtained and are producing in numbers they will not need to import any more. They will be making the money not Australians. Wow what a concept.

Now take a deep breath and resign yourself to the fact that reptile breeding and export is not going to put anyone on the next BRW rich list. Concentrate on the job that puts food on your table and let your hobby be just that.

Octane

[Waterrat]

I had the opportunity to meet a few American big breeders, and I mean big, employing staff, etc.. They aren't that wealthy. Most of them are running side businesses with herp equipment, some grow expensive plants, etc., to make a decent living. Even Greg Maxwell made more money from his books than from his chondros ... and his were one of the best.
So, where is the huge river of money flowing?

[dpedwards08]

You say that because there are Australian reptiles being bred in America that Americans wouldn't buy reptiles from breeders in Australia or pay the prices of Australia if there was free trade there. I don't believe that is true. Take bushmasters for example. They are bred in America however people still import them. Ok we probably wouldnt import bearded dragons, but I can guarantee you that people would make a beeline straight to Australia for a lot of other species. There are some really nice localities of otherwise common species that would be a reason to import from Australia. People will pay good money for quality reptiles, especially reptiles that they can only get in one place in the world. Another aspect is that just because something CAN be bought here, doesn't mean they necessarily mean they WANT to buy it here.

[Snake_Whisperer]

You don't get, we aren't some small country. The negible effect it will have on our economy is not worth the possible effect our our wildlife. We make more from our seafood than we would ever selling a few snakes and on top of that, around the world there are more people breeding our pythons than here in Australia. Dude we don't need to sell snakes to make good life for peoples familes. I get your exportation only but you don't get we don't want to. There is no tangible economic benefit. We get more economic benefit from foreigners coming over to see how reptiles.

You need to stop stating this economic benefit, it's a very very weak argument, american's breed more of our snakes that we do. Anyway i'm over another ignorant american who probably thinks the queen sits in Australia, and that the moon rises our of the ocean.

We don't want it, it will never happen and frankly I think you need to research what our economy is really like. While your $ falls and ours reaches 25year highs.

Australia Economy | Economy Watch

Who's this "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Awfully presumptuous of you to be foaming at the mouth about "us" not wanting to explore the possibility of exporting reptiles. I for one, and know others, who don't necessarily think it's such a bad idea. You keep arguing about importing disease etc, but this debate is about export. You can flail around all you want but creating a legal export system would provide a net gain to the economy (on whatever scale) in the form of bringing foreign money to Australia. Period. By the tone of the following:

Anyway i'm over another ignorant american who probably thinks the queen sits in Australia, and that the moon rises our of the ocean.

We don't want it, it will never happen and frankly I think you need to research what our economy is really like. While your $ falls and ours reaches 25year highs.

It is quite easy to infer that you "hate 'mericans", of course you are free to hate whomever you like, but it is a flimsy platform from which to spew your opinion. Believe it or not, you do not speak for the herp community.

Would exporting captive bred reptiles to overseas collectors make anyone a "millioner", probably not, but maybe. You never know. Is there potential there for some enterprising herpers to make a quid out of selling quality, locality specific animals to foreign collectors who will snap them up like hot cakes? You can bet your sweet *** there is! Moronic rhetoric aside, I for one believe there is merit to exploring the possibility of opening up the hobby to exportation, even if only to help find homes for the thousands of "unwanted reptiles that the big name breeders didn't want everyone breeding".

[Waterrat]

There is a lot of merit in what you're saying. If reptiles were allowed to be exported, it would have to be strictly controlled, even more so as we are being controlled now and only a few "selected and licenced" individuals or businesses would have the privileged to export. There is NO WAY the government would let every Dick & Harry to export. Can you imagine the politics this would create?

[Sock Puppet]

If reptiles were allowed to be exported, it would have to be strictly controlled, even more so as we are being controlled now

Exporting would also raise the issue of which governing body would be in charge of controlling licencing/records or whatever else would be involved to undertake such an exercise.

Currently each Australian State & Territory's rules & regulations are different state to state, depending on the requirements set out by that state's governing body.

Export would have to be controlled by a federal body, or if not, each state dept would have to agree on national standards, regulations, processes etc. for a standardised & streamlined system.