Help with feeding ......Again

[meshe1969]

I have read and tried everything on this site to get one of our diamonds to feed, please help me!! I am taking him to Peter Cameron tommorrow at 5.15 pm but have heard both good and bad reports about him, so still looking for advice.
Stats:

hatched 04.05.2005
last feed 20.03.2006
purchased 21.03.2006
last shed 29.03.2006

Enclosure temps currently

Basking 35
middle 28 Thermostat is set on 28
cold 20
hide 19
Edit There is a ceramic in the light cage behind the branch.

When purchased was told it was eating velvet mice, live and frozen/thawed
purchase was over the internet, interstate and they where flown in by AAE.

Purchased a female at the same time (three days older) and she is eating frozen/thawed velvet rats. (Plus a cut up chicken wing)

We tried a few different things before winter such as braining, chicken soup etc. always warming it up and leaving it in the feed box with the snake over night, also tried moving the dead rat around.

Left it unhandled over winter, didnt offer food etc (treated the female the same, but she had eaten before winter)

Turned the temps up gradually about two weeks ago, she has eaten a velvet rat already.

We have tried him a couple of times a few days apart with the following;
In a small cardboard box or a plastic container overnight
Pinkie rats soaked in chicken stock
Velvet Rat thawed out in a bag with chicken feathers then offered with the feathers still on the rat

Then we tried leaving a cut up part off a chicken wing in the enclosure overnight which the female ate.(two days after eating the rat ).
The male and female have been in the same enclosure since we got them.
I will try to attach pics of the setup, plus him and one of her.

His skin is very loose and baggy, we are very worried about him. Was sure he would feed after winter.
Will go out and get some pinkie and velvet mice (frozen) and try some tonight unless you think otherwise.
Thankyou in advance.

[gillsy]

Not sure but nice enclosure.

[meshe1969]

male (sebastian)

[meshe1969]

female

[TOMatoPASTE]

force feeding...

could start him off if you want to go through the stress with him, would prob wait till after the app. tomorrow to try it though. good luck! btw, sweet enclosure

[Kyro]

Have you tried feeding him on his own?Maybe try removing the female & see if he will eat tonight & if not then definately get him to the vet. If he does need to be force fed you need an experienced herp vet/person to assist

[andyh]

Hi,
You only mention trying to feed rats, have you tried going back to mice?

[meshe1969]

Originally Posted by gillsy

Not sure but nice enclosure.

Thanks! Its a entertainment unit, it also houses three beardies.

[meshe1969]

Originally Posted by Kyro

Have you tried feeding him on his own?Maybe try removing the female & see if he will eat tonight & if not then definately get him to the vet. If he does need to be force fed you need an experienced herp vet/person to assist

Yep, tried on his own.
Thanks

[meshe1969]

Originally Posted by andyh

Hi,
You only mention trying to feed rats, have you tried going back to mice?

Tried a pinkie mouse and a fuzzy mouse, still no go.
Thankyou

[andyh]

try rubbing a gecko or skink on the food item, worked first time for me.

[deathinfire]

Maybe try placing him in a smaller tank like an 50/80L plastic tub in a warm (24-27C) quiet room left alone for 1 or 2 days, with a heat pad on one half of the tub for heating, And offer him food before sunset, maybe try an adult mice dangling it with thongs in front of his hide. The problem could be as simple as the enclosure being too big for him to feel safe in.

What did the previous owner house him in?

[ihaveherps]

Most feeding problems in healthy snakes arise due to husbandry related issues. Although your temps seem OK, basking site is a little hot for a diamond. Excluding illness, which the vet can help eliminate, I believe the enclosure may be the problem. Stress will often cause a python to refuse food. If I understand correctly that the two are sharing an enclosure, I would have separated them into their own enclosures at first sign of a problem. I dont advise pythons sharing enclosures unless you have the time to monitor the situation, and both animals are well balanced, feeding, and unstressed. Secondly the large size of the enclosure and the open layout does not lend itself to a secure environment, and again could stress the animal. In my opinion, you should prepare an opaque plastic tub enclosure in a quite area of the house to give him some peace, security, and a little privacy, and he should come good. But still see the vet.

Alot of keepers run into similar problems, when they over think the animals needs, or underestimate the ease at which some pythons get stressed. Sometimes the ugly but functional tubs are really the best option.

Deathinfire, damn your quick, you got in while i was typing....

[shamous1]

I would have thought that 35 degrees for a diamond would be too much. So your going to see Peter Cameron ummmmmmm?

[meshe1969]

Yep, have seen the vet and he has told us to set up the tub thing as well, except for the starvation he thought he was fine. So have set up the tub and will give it a couple of days before trying again. Taking him back to Peter if he hasnt feed in a week.


Thankyou everyone, very worried he isnt going to feed, it is upsetting!!! Im at the point now that I think we are going to lose him.

Peter said that force feeding a snake often results in death because they are weak and the stress it causes, so trying the tub thing first.


Could you all please help me wiith the tub, Im having trouble getting the temp up.
I have a heat mat under about a third of the tub, connected to a Microclimate b2, I had a piece of wood between it and the mat like the instructions say (and poly foam under the mat) but there was no heat coming through at all. I have now replaced the wood for a towel but the temp is still 19 degrees. Do I just need to allow more time for the temps to rise? I have set it up this afternoon.
Thankyou
Ann