over feeding snakes

[Trousa_Snake]

Originally Posted by Magpie

Skaarf the crows, is it that easy to get rid of cats?
I almost always feed my pythons in bursts of heavy feeding, then back off for a while.

Fairie killer!

[Colin]

very hard to say what is overfeeding as it depends on the age and size of your snake and the size of the food item that your feeding.


Snakes are opportunistic feeders in the wild and can gorge themselves when food is available and then go for long periods without feeding. What I tend to do is feed enough so that the snake sheds approximately every 6 -8 weeks, so if its shedding quicker than that, slow down the frequency and/or size of the food item or if its taking a fair bit longer than 6-8 weeks to shed, increase the frequency (slightly) and/or the size of the food items. After a while you seem to just 'get the hang of it' and feed individual snakes accordingly, rather than feeding all on a set day and with same size food item.


But you should keep an eye on obesity and maybe miss out on a feed here or there to keep them growing well but trim. Breeding females need to be a good size but not overweight and breeding males (imo) always do a bit better if slim and trim (but not underweight)


Its a difficult subject and (imo) each snake should be assessed individually for their requirements as some seem to grow quicker than others, even when from the same parents and same clutch.

[Pythoninfinite]

As Magpie suggests - they probably go through boom & bust periods in the wild, as food availability and weather permits, so it's not a bad idea to simulate that in captivity. Most snakes are probably fed far more frequently in captivity than they ever would in the bush. I feed my youngsters at least once a week, and the adults might sometimes go for 6-7 weeks between (large) meals on some occasions.

For the first year or two it's not a bad idea to feed every 5-6 days to get some size on them, but overfeeding sub-adult and adult snakes is not a good thing. Having said that I wouldn't subscribe to the regime of feeding only after a poo, some snakes are very irregular in that regard (it seems to be an individual thing, as it is in humans!) and it is quite an unnatural approach. It certainly doesn't do them any harm to eat before a defecation, and a snake in the bush will eat where and whenever it can - it won't think to itself "I can't eat that now rat because I'm not going to crap till next week..."

Jamie.

[hazzard]

Skaarf up!

There is very minimal scientific evidence available to support any method of feeding. The debate about wild feeding rates is bound to come into this. The fact of the matter is wild feeding can be just as erratic, and if food were regularly available, they eat it (eg water pythons at fogg damn, they skaarf themselves).

It is interesting to actually see what happens when a snake is fed to it's absolute limit (feeding to refusal). In captivity it's hard to overfeed hatchlings because of their potential growth rate and the constant temperature that is maintained. As they reach sub-adult size which can easily be achieved by 9 -12 months they begin to refuse food on their own and regulate their own intake (in childrens pythons anyway).

There are a few scientific studies going on a present that could aid in shedding some light on this subject.

My personal opinion is that you can go fairly hard (skaarf) from hatchlings to sub-adult hood. Poo cycle is fine, which is every 5 days for mine. Once at this sub-adult stage food can be backed off to fornightly or even monthly with small lean rodents. The quantity is not as important as quality (IMO). Fat rats make fat snakes).

Many breeders have succesfully bred pythons such as womas at 15 months of age and these pythons are still alive today.

Fatter liver disease isn't from regular feeding of lean rodents it's caused from regular feeding of high fat meals just as it is in humans!

[shamous1]

I feed most of mine every 7 to 10 days. Sometimes I will vary it and offer a bit more than usual and then I will let the go without for 3 weeks.

In the wild you can bet they line up at the tuck shop to get a feed on time every time.

[croc_hunter_penny]

i feed all my snakes irregularly, generally a week or two or sometimes three. I follow their actions usually, if i see them "hunting" in the evenings then i will give them food, rather than just plopping another rat in front of them on the same day each week. I feed them rats/mice proportionate to the size of their body, and usually only one per snake per feeding.

[salebrosus]

Originally Posted by bouncn

i do poo feeding or whatever they call it.
feed day or 2 after poo and never have probs

If i waited for some of my snakes to crap before i fed them they would never grow. One of my animals only craps once every 3-4 weeks but when she does it's a beauty.

It doesn't harm snakes in the first year of their life to feed them every 4-5 days (depending on the food size). After that then i feed mine once every 7-10 days again depending on the feed size or whether they have knocked back feeds the previous week. Breeders renowned for feeding 4-5 days in the first year of a snakes life have never lost animals to "powerfeeding".

I figure if my animals are healthy and breeding then I'm doing nohting wrong and i'm not going to change it.

Simone.

[BiteAndSqueeze]

I was originally told at a pet shop to feed weekly. Later I read the previous threads and I accepted the suggestions of some of the "older & wiser" members who suggest less handling and less feeding. My snakes are now around 3 years old and get fed every 3 - 4 weeks (sometimes shorter periods to mix it up). They seem quite healthy. I like sleek looking snakes - not fatsos. They have usually well and trully pooed by the time they get fed again. I also tend to wait until they seem to be "on the prowl" before feeding.

[Chimera]

I think you could even up their sizes through feeding but the fact of the matter is this would have to be done over time. The question is a bit open ended as you haven't mentioned what the size difference is either.

So long as both snakes are being fed an amount that will keep them healthy (i.e. your not overfeeding or underfeeding) there should not be an issue. There is no exact amount to feed a snake so you could feed the smaller one in the upper range of what is healthy and the larger one in the lower range.

Reptiles biological systems move slowly and therefore any quick results are often unhealthy.

[hazzard]

Originally Posted by Chimera

Reptiles biological systems move slowly and therefore any quick results are often unhealthy.

This is dependant on ambient temperature which is much more variable in the wild! In captivity their metabolic rate is in overdrive particularly in small box like enclosures.

As for no set rate to feed in some way i beg to differ. Obviously the way of the wild is eat when you can eat. Wild feeding rates have been averaged out to around 10% of bodyweight consumption per week. We all know reptiles don't eat like this, but averaged out this is what they are getting. Generally these wild snakes are under-fed in my opinion and this is simply nature. They tend to have smaller clutches (always exceptions) and high mortality amongst the young.

Captivity can be viewed as a production system. You can precisely control their environment and their food intake. This is the way of the scientist with everything. If you have control of the important factors such as constant temperature and treat all individuals similarly you can draw conclusions.

We are investigating this with children's pythons with some very interesting results. These will be made available down the track as the trial progresses. It's based over 3 years at set feeding rates. It will also examine the reproductive success of individuals and look at fat storage and body morphometrics by ultrasound.

I personally weigh my animal and weigh the prey size (approx give or take 5-10g or so) that i am feeding. I check and record their growth each month and adjust when required. I also don't see this as a hard practice to do. If you breed your own rodents, you cull at certain sizes and pack at various weights.

From our studies using CP's as a model i beleive the best feeding rate is between 15-25% of bodyweight per week for hatchlings at a constant 30 degrees celcius.

It depends whether it is a hobby for you or a production system. And lets face it, it is a business for some. In the latter case it's no different than maximising your production of honey from bees or meat or milk from cows IMO!

Hopefully down the track the science will be there for many species to make an informed choice.

[Kali7]

Originally Posted by cris

Never ever feed your snake 2 days in a row or god will kill a kitten.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I wish she would!!

Hatchies, every 5-7 days
Juvies, every 10-14 days
Adults, every 14days plus
Old buggers, once a month

[Trousa_Snake]

I feed all my snakes random amounts at random times -But feed fat rats to a snake over a long period of time you get a fat snake - you are what you eat

Overfeeding in my eyes would mean a fat unhealthy snake not a fast growing snake - Larger random meals are a more natural way than a standard feed every 7 days , but each to there own!
Some of my snakes get feed every week or so some only every few months , depends on the snake and alot of different factors.

[boa]

This is one of those subjects where people just wont agree, the problem is what length of time between meals is considered 'normal' ? If a snake eats every 3 weeks in the wild should we then feed ours every 3 weeks ? On top of that what size food are we talking about ? Is it OK to feed a snake a pink rat every 3 days or the same snake a weaner every 14 days ?
My hatchlings get fed every 5 days and continue at that rate until they are 18-24 months and then it gets extended to around once a week or longer depending on the snake.

[JasonL]

I totally agree with Hazzard on this one, we some what control our reptiles metabolic rate by the amount of heat we give them, as hatchies in a click clack, being heated 24/7, their bodies are wanting to grow. Once they are adults, we have to take into consideration the lack of exercise they are getting and manage their feeding accordingly.

[Sdaji]

Feeding every day is okay, as long as you only use white rats. Black ones aren't too bad, grey ones should never be used. Multi-coloured rodents will usually cause sudden death in pythons, but elapids can eat them fairly safely (probably because the venom neutralises the colour-related issues, but I'm only guessing). Colubrids should never be fed anything, ever.

Make sure you don't give out advice on the long-term affects of over/under feeding unless you have been keeping snakes for less than one year and certainly not at all if you've ever actually bred anything. I see many people are sticking to this rule, which is good to see

Don't ever bring the differing needs of different species into this frequently discussed issue as it will only serve to help people. Good to see that not one person has broken this rule (other than me - sorry! !)

Happy Skarfing/starving Remember that whatever you do, you'll have people telling you off about it unless you stay quiet