Diamond python hatchling help!

[Chelsear]

hi everyone! I bought my first snake a little diamond python roughly 4/5 months old, we brought him home 2 days ago. This is the set up we have him in which was recommended by the breeder. I’m really
second guessing myself about if he’s happy and if this is an okay environment for him. The heat lamp is set to 33 degrees and the Breeder said to keep it on 24/7. It is attached to an on/off thermostat so the bulb is switching on and off every few minutes. The probe is placed on top of the mesh just under the hood of the dome (as we were told to do). He hasn’t come out of his rock hide all day.. I’m so worried that he is too hot or cold or something! Would the constant on and off from the light bother him? Should he be moving around more? He is due for a feed in 2 days so I will see how he feeds but I’m just terrified I’m not doing the right thing by him! Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Are you checking the temperature in the enclosure? (Infra red thermometers are the best option for this). Thermostat settings often dont give accurate reflection of the actual temp.
With the probe so close to the heat source its no wonder its on/off so frequently but the most important thing is the temp inside and the light won't bother the snake.

Not unusual for them to hide away, just let it be while you get the temp settings sorted.
24/7 heat is quite normal for such a young animal, I keep all my hatchies on 24/7 heat through their first winter.

If he doesn't feed straight away dont be too stressed sometimes they take a little while to settle.

If the temp in the enclosure is ok but the light concerns you another option is to use a smaller output globe so it takes longer to heat up.
I'm not a fan of glass enclosures for a couple of reasons, they dont hold the heat very well and they dont offer your animal any feeling of security. You could try putting polystyrene on the outside of 3 walls of the enclosure, (or cardboard, whatever you have at hand that will offer some security and possibly hold some heat in)

 

[Aquaman]

You Could change the light to a ceramic heat emitter?

 

[Chipewah]

I like the Ceramic heat bulbs better and most pythons don't venture out much during the day. I almost never see mine out until it's dark.

 

[GBWhite]

As PP said you've got your thermostat too close to the light and that's why it going on and off constantly. To stop this from happening so often the probe needs to be inside and on the floor of the enclose under the light. It will still happen but not as regular as what you're experiencing.The quickest way to fix it is to drill a very small hole in the side of the lid next to the light that's the same size (or a bit smaller) that the probe so you can just fit the probe and lead through and lower the probe and lead into the enclosure and place the probe on the floor. It's very important to make sure that it's a tight fit so you don't allow any space for the little guy to escape. Alternatively down the track you can do away with the light and heat the enclosure from underneath using a heat cord sandwiched between two tiles. If you search the threads here you see instructions on how to put the heat cord between the tiles and the correct way to place it under the enclosure to avoid a fire.

Also not a bad idea to do what PP suggests and line the outside of two sides and back of the sides with a bit of polystyrene to keep the heat in and provide it with a bit of privacy.

 

[pythoninfinite]

baby pythons are very vulnerable to predators, so they are almost entirely nocturnal. As others have suggested, a different heat source such as a ceramic heat emitter or a heat cord (low wattage, maybe 15W would be enough) will provide the required heat without the light. (Using lights to provide heat is probably the most expensive way to heat a snake enclosure). You need the thermostat probe to be somewhere close to where the snake will spend most of its time, as it will only be the area that the probe is placed that is reaching the desired temperature - which should be where the snake is most often.

A word about feeding - you say the baby is "due for a feed in 2 days..." - you definitely don't need to be that regular to the day when feeding snakes. Most experienced keepers do feed their youngsters fairly regularly to get them over the "delicate" stage, but this can vary from a few days apart to a couple of weeks if it's not convenient at a particular time. You may want to aim for an average of around once a week, but if it's a few days either way, it won't hurt the baby in any way.

Jamie

 

[Chelsear]

As PP said you've got your thermostat too close to the light and that's why it going on and off constantly. To stop this from happening so often the probe needs to be inside and on the floor of the enclose under the light. It will still happen but not as regular as what you're experiencing.The quickest way to fix it is to drill a very small hole in the side of the lid next to the light that's the same size (or a bit smaller) that the probe so you can just fit the probe and lead through and lower the probe and lead into the enclosure and place the probe on the floor. It's very important to make sure that it's a tight fit so you don't allow any space for the little guy to escape. Alternatively down the track you can do away with the light and heat the enclosure from underneath using a heat cord sandwiched between two tiles. If you search the threads here you see instructions on how to put the heat cord between the tiles and the correct way to place it under the enclosure to avoid a fire.

Also not a bad idea to do what PP suggests and line the outside of two sides and back of the sides with a bit of polystyrene to keep the heat in and provide it with a bit of privacy.

To get the probe on he floor near him how exactly do I go about it? Do I run it down the side of the glass and just sit it on the floor on top of the newspaper?
[doublepost=1527380498,1527380096][/doublepost]

baby pythons are very vulnerable to predators, so they are almost entirely nocturnal. As others have suggested, a different heat source such as a ceramic heat emitter or a heat cord (low wattage, maybe 15W would be enough) will provide the required heat without the light. (Using lights to provide heat is probably the most expensive way to heat a snake enclosure). You need the thermostat probe to be somewhere close to where the snake will spend most of its time, as it will only be the area that the probe is placed that is reaching the desired temperature - which should be where the snake is most often.

A word about feeding - you say the baby is "due for a feed in 2 days..." - you definitely don't need to be that regular to the day when feeding snakes. Most experienced keepers do feed their youngsters fairly regularly to get them over the "delicate" stage, but this can vary from a few days apart to a couple of weeks if it's not convenient at a particular time. You may want to aim for an average of around once a week, but if it's a few days either way, it won't hurt the baby in any way.

Jamie

We brought him home on Friday and were told give him 3-4 days to settle before feeding him, hence the specific timing

 

[Buggster]

Pythons don’t follow a schedule. My baby Diamond fed for the first time the day after I got him as I felt he felt safe. I’ve had 3 other snakes before him and helped care for others, and I made the decision to feed him as I felt he would feed. He did.

My first snake however wouldn’t feed for almost a week however.

Both completely normal.

If your snake is constantly hiding and appears to be stressed, just leave him be. He’s unlikely to take a feed and will just stress more.


I’m not a fan of infrared lights in general. They’re an eyesore and don’t do anything a normal basking light won’t do. And they’re incredibly expensive. My Diamond currently has a 100w Phillips bulb from Bunnings. Cost be a couple dollars for a pair of lights.

Another reason you’ll find your snake is very cautious is because your tank is so barren. Cover the two side walls and back walls (which will also help keep the heat in), and put something else in that tank (fake plants are great for this and fake vines).

Baby Diamonds are also a very arboreal species and will spend most of their time up in the trees. Mine has three main vertical perches, as well as three hide boxes hanging from the wall. I’m in the process of making him a hanging platform also.

I did have a hide on the ground previously but he hardly ever went onto the ground so I removed it

 

[GBWhite]

To get the probe on he floor near him how exactly do I go about it? Do I run it down the side of the glass and just sit it on the floor on top of the newspaper?
[doublepost=1527380498,1527380096][/doublepost]
We brought him home on Friday and were told give him 3-4 days to settle before feeding him, hence the specific timing

Yes, run the lead down the side (preferably in the corner) and place the probe on the floor. Jamie's a very experienced keeper (I'd say probably far more experienced than the person you got it off ) and as he said about a feeding schedule is spot on. Don't panic just let him get use to his new enclosure and then try feeding it. Just like other members of the Morelia spilota complex, Diamonds are ambush feeders in the wild. You'll more than likely find that when the snake feels comfortable and gets hungry he'll more than likely come out of his hide and take up a position on his perch with his head looking toward the floor.

Baby Diamonds are also a very arboreal species and will spend most of their time up in the trees. Mine has three main vertical perches, as well as three hide boxes hanging from the wall. I’m in the process of making him a hanging platform also./

They do tend to get as high in captivity as they can, especially if they have a safe hide to retreat into. But in the wild young ones aren't that arboreal. There's not much advantage to them finding refuge in trees or hollows when they are small as they are more likely to become prey to a bird or rodent. In fact, from many years experience collecting in the areas they inhabit I've found that they tend to seek refuge in tight crevices amongst the sandstone escarpments they occupy. I'm of the opinion that this is because, due to their colour and pattern, when they're tucked tightly into a crevice they take on the image of loose sand that gets blown about and attaches to cobwebs inside the crevice and virtually disappear to any prospective predators. Other times they take overnight refuge under sandstone exfoliates.

 

[Chelsear]

Pythons don’t follow a schedule. My baby Diamond fed for the first time the day after I got him as I felt he felt safe. I’ve had 3 other snakes before him and helped care for others, and I made the decision to feed him as I felt he would feed. He did.

My first snake however wouldn’t feed for almost a week however.

Both completely normal.

If your snake is constantly hiding and appears to be stressed, just leave him be. He’s unlikely to take a feed and will just stress more.


I’m not a fan of infrared lights in general. They’re an eyesore and don’t do anything a normal basking light won’t do. And they’re incredibly expensive. My Diamond currently has a 100w Phillips bulb from Bunnings. Cost be a couple dollars for a pair of lights.

Another reason you’ll find your snake is very cautious is because your tank is so barren. Cover the two side walls and back walls (which will also help keep the heat in), and put something else in that tank (fake plants are great for this and fake vines).

Baby Diamonds are also a very arboreal species and will spend most of their time up in the trees. Mine has three main vertical perches, as well as three hide boxes hanging from the wall. I’m in the process of making him a hanging platform also.

I did have a hide on the ground previously but he hardly ever went onto the ground so I removed it

Thankyou so much for your advice! I’ve wrapped a dark towel around 3 sides of his tank until I Can go and buy something more permanent. The red light is driving me crazy at night! Do you have any specific recommendations of what bulb I can get Him that can be put in the dome and stay on top of the mesh? I have the thermostat set to 33 degrees with the probe on the floor next to his hide. If I put a branch under the lamp should I be lowering the temperature of the thermostat so it isn’t too hot for him if he decides to perch under the light on the branch?

 

[Buggster]

I use these.
I don’t use a thermostat with night lights. They’re all on timers. Shouldn’t get too much over 30 degrees.

I don’t think you understand how a thermostat and probe works.
You put the probe where you want to measure the temperature- the thermostat will turn the heat source off once the probe registers the heat as being more than the set temp.
You put the probe in the exact stop you want to measure the temperature. If you want to keep the inside of the hide at 33, you put the probe inside the hide. Temps outside of the hide will vary.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

I don’t use a thermostat with night lights. They’re all on timers. Shouldn’t get too much over 30 degrees

This actually depends on the distance between the globe and the hotspot and can change quite significantly.
I agree with not using thermostats in some set ups but Im not sure that this is the idea set up not to be using a thermostat at this stage though maybe down the track.

 

[pythoninfinite]

If you give the snake choices, and the enclosure is set up to its liking, it will decide where it wants to be. If the branch is too hot, the snake won't perch on it. Unfortunately you have been sold an entirely unsuitable enclosure and heat source. Glass is a poor insulator, and won't hold heat, and the open mesh top will just let all the heat out by convection. You may be able to temporarily fix some of the problem by covering half to two thirds of the top with a towel, and allowing the towel to cover the back and front, and one end as well, to keep some of the radiated heat from your lamp inside the cage. You should also try and get a low wattage heat cord and get rid of the lamp as soon as possible. They are not expensive. What is the wattage of the lamp? This is important because you need to aim for the MINIMUM wattage that will give you the heat you require - when you are relying on a thermostat to manage temps, if a thermostat fails and you have a very powerful heat source, you will end up cooking your snake if heating continues uncontrolled. Excessive heat is far more dangerous and will kill a small snake quickly, whereas being too cool is not quite as urgent. Bear in mind that when you use light for heat, your energy costs are going to be far higher, maybe not so important for a couple of animals, but a consideration for a larger collection.

Young pythons are secretive and spend much of their time in hiding. This will change as the animal grows and gets used to your household routines and environment, but in their very early life, self-preservation is paramount, and they will have little interest in being over exposed.

I think I'd be pretty safe to say that in 95% of cases where Carpets or Diamonds fail to thrive, the primary cause will be failure to manage temps appropriately. Get that under control and they are generally bullet proof.

Jamie

 

[Chelsear]

If you give the snake choices, and the enclosure is set up to its liking, it will decide where it wants to be. If the branch is too hot, the snake won't perch on it. Unfortunately you have been sold an entirely unsuitable enclosure and heat source. Glass is a poor insulator, and won't hold heat, and the open mesh top will just let all the heat out by convection. You may be able to temporarily fix some of the problem by covering half to two thirds of the top with a towel, and allowing the towel to cover the back and front, and one end as well, to keep some of the radiated heat from your lamp inside the cage. You should also try and get a low wattage heat cord and get rid of the lamp as soon as possible. They are not expensive. What is the wattage of the lamp? This is important because you need to aim for the MINIMUM wattage that will give you the heat you require - when you are relying on a thermostat to manage temps, if a thermostat fails and you have a very powerful heat source, you will end up cooking your snake if heating continues uncontrolled. Excessive heat is far more dangerous and will kill a small snake quickly, whereas being too cool is not quite as urgent. Bear in mind that when you use light for heat, your energy costs are going to be far higher, maybe not so important for a couple of animals, but a consideration for a larger collection.

Young pythons are secretive and spend much of their time in hiding. This will change as the animal grows and gets used to your household routines and environment, but in their very early life, self-preservation is paramount, and they will have little interest in being over exposed.

I think I'd be pretty safe to say that in 95% of cases where Carpets or Diamonds fail to thrive, the primary cause will be failure to manage temps appropriately. Get that under control and they are generally bullet proof.

Jamie

I’m really angry about what I’ve been sold to be honest I feel like I’ve been completely ripped off from people that are meant to be ‘professionals’ and keep getting such mixed advice. I’ve spent so much money on different things only to be told that I shouldn’t have that!
The bulb is 75 watts. I originally got given a heat mat from the people that sold me the enclosure and the snake that was TINY! Didn’t even cover 1/8 of the tank, then another Breeder sold me the heat lamp and thermostat and told me to place the probe under the hood of the dome..
so basically I need an entirely new enclosure and go back to using a heat mat that covers atleast 1/3 of the cage floor? He hasn’t come out of his hide for almost two days I can only imagine that the poor little thing is stressed and that the environment he is in isn’t ideal for him

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Hey Chelsear, don't stress too much and dont go running off to spend another wad of cash. You can make that set up work for you in the short to medium term. I would just look at following the advice given that is easy.....cover the sides and some of the top. Change to a smaller globe.....40w or 60w. Move the the probe to the correct location.

You will always get conflicting advice in this hobby but this is your 1st snake and you relied on the seller/breeder without doing enough research. Many of us have made those mistakes so don't fret, learn from it and move on.
There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and even we disagree on how things should be done on occasion.

If there is one thing you can do above all else that will help you now and in the future. Read everything you can and ask every dumb question in the book to as many people as you can.

 

[Chelsear]

Hey Chelsear, don't stress too much and dont go running off to spend another wad of cash. You can make that set up work for you in the short to medium term. I would just look at following the advice given that is easy.....cover the sides and some of the top. Change to a smaller globe.....40w or 60w. Move the the probe to the correct location.

You will always get conflicting advice in this hobby but this is your 1st snake and you relied on the seller/breeder without doing enough research. Many of us have made those mistakes so don't fret, learn from it and move on.
There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and even we disagree on how things should be done on occasion.

If there is one thing you can do above all else that will help you now and in the future. Read everything you can and ask every dumb question in the book to as many people as you can.

Thankyou Paul. I have put the probe next to his hide with the thermostat set at 32. I will buy a smaller wattage globe tomorrow aswell as some branches for him to climb. I’m just terrified of overcooking the poor thing and waking up to find him dead I had heard such good things about this Breeder and had been in to see him a few times before purchasing the snake so thought I was in good hands.
I’ve covered up his tank with a towel to keep the heat in too

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

One thing you will need is something to measure the temp.
Thermostats are not accurate and with your snake hiding away he could well be too hot. I would suggest at this stage that some kind of thermometer and a smaller globe would be priorities.

 

[Chelsear]

Hey Chelsear, don't stress too much and dont go running off to spend another wad of cash. You can make that set up work for you in the short to medium term. I would just look at following the advice given that is easy.....cover the sides and some of the top. Change to a smaller globe.....40w or 60w. Move the the probe to the correct location.

You will always get conflicting advice in this hobby but this is your 1st snake and you relied on the seller/breeder without doing enough research. Many of us have made those mistakes so don't fret, learn from it and move on.
There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and even we disagree on how things should be done on occasion.

If there is one thing you can do above all else that will help you now and in the future. Read everything you can and ask every dumb question in the book to as many people as you can.

Does the light need to stay on 24/7? It is on more often than it is off and the dome and fitting are really really hot

One thing you will need is something to measure the temp.
Thermostats are not accurate and with your snake hiding away he could well be too hot. I would suggest at this stage that some kind of thermometer and a smaller globe would be priorities.

they will be the first things I buy tomorrow! I have a thermometer that measures surface temps but not sure how accurate it is so will buying a new one and a 40w globe in the morning. Just hope he is okay overnight! The fitting and dome are burning hot so I may turn it down a couple of degrees to be safe
[doublepost=1527429750,1527429309][/doublepost]

One thing you will need is something to measure the temp.
Thermostats are not accurate and with your snake hiding away he could well be too hot. I would suggest at this stage that some kind of thermometer and a smaller globe would be priorities.

I’ve just put my hand in there under the lamp and it actually seems okay, doesn’t seem too hot at all the ceramic fitting and dome are just really hot from being on constantly! I’ll get him a branch, smaller globe and thermometer in the morning. Thankyou for all your advice
[doublepost=1527430942][/doublepost]

baby pythons are very vulnerable to predators, so they are almost entirely nocturnal. As others have suggested, a different heat source such as a ceramic heat emitter or a heat cord (low wattage, maybe 15W would be enough) will provide the required heat without the light. (Using lights to provide heat is probably the most expensive way to heat a snake enclosure). You need the thermostat probe to be somewhere close to where the snake will spend most of its time, as it will only be the area that the probe is placed that is reaching the desired temperature - which should be where the snake is most often.

A word about feeding - you say the baby is "due for a feed in 2 days..." - you definitely don't need to be that regular to the day when feeding snakes. Most experienced keepers do feed their youngsters fairly regularly to get them over the "delicate" stage, but this can vary from a few days apart to a couple of weeks if it's not convenient at a particular time. You may want to aim for an average of around once a week, but if it's a few days either way, it won't hurt the baby in any way.

Jamie

The probe is inside the enclosure now on the floor next to his hide where he spends all of his time at the moment but the light is still switching on and off every minute or so and it’s driving me insane! There must be something that I’m doing wrong I’m not sure why it keeps changing so quickly

 

[Bl69aze]

Does the light need to stay on 24/7? It is on more often than it is off and the dome and fitting are really really hot

they will be the first things I buy tomorrow! I have a thermometer that measures surface temps but not sure how accurate it is so will buying a new one and a 40w globe in the morning. Just hope he is okay overnight! The fitting and dome are burning hot so I may turn it down a couple of degrees to be safe
[doublepost=1527429750,1527429309][/doublepost]
I’ve just put my hand in there under the lamp and it actually seems okay, doesn’t seem too hot at all the ceramic fitting and dome are just really hot from being on constantly! I’ll get him a branch, smaller globe and thermometer in the morning. Thankyou for all your advice
[doublepost=1527430942][/doublepost]
The probe is inside the enclosure now on the floor next to his hide where he spends all of his time at the moment but the light is still switching on and off every minute or so and it’s driving me insane! There must be something that I’m doing wrong I’m not sure why it keeps changing so quickly

It’s turning on and off so fast because the globe is too strong.

Get a infrared thermometer gun


That tank is really designed for heat mat or cord, can’t imagine what the light + heat is doing while it goes through the glass

It’s pretty much the same as standing in the sun coming straight through your window, gets a lil toasty

 

[pythoninfinite]

As Paul says, don't panic. If you haven't already hit the shops, don't buy another globe. Using lights for heat is a truly inefficient (and as you've found) irritating way to heat your snake. You don't need to have a heat mat that covers 1/3 of the floor (in fact that's probably too big) - the one you have will be ample because the heat from the mat will diffuse over a larger area than the mat itself. You only need a warm area large enough for the snake to settle anyway.

If you use the heat mat under the tank (with a 5mm air space to allow air circulation because even a tiny heat mat can get very hot), a few sheets of newspaper on the bottom of the cage, a couple of hides in a warm and cool place, and cover the top and 3 sides with a towel, you will have a perfectly adequate enclosure. The problem with using a lamp for heat is that you are heating the air, and warm air is hard to capture (plus it is very inefficient). If you use a heat mat or cord, you are heating the surface the snake lies on, which is very efficient and satisfactory for pythons.

A big bonus is that you don't have to put up with the bloody light cycling on and off every 60 seconds - and this I think is a major part of your anxiety. You need to set it and basically forget it once you get the heating levels sorted. Aim for a surface temp of around 30-32C in the warm spot and you'll be fine.

Jamie