Still born eastern bluey ??

[herptrader]

I don't have all that much experience Blue tongues. We have had a old Blotched blue tongue for a number of years which shares our fernery with some long necked turtles. We sort of guessed (Dora) was a female.

Toward the end of last year we were given an unwanted Eastern blue Tongue which came with the name Dax, so since then Dora has had a friend. We suspected she was female also and as such we expected,and saw, no hanky panky. These two just hung out like mates.

Dax has doubled in size (to be adult size) since we got her about 4 months ago.

Dora is almost in hibernation though she was spotted over the weekend enjoying the last of the Autumn warmth. Dax on the other hand has been out most days. Both skinks are well fed and appear in good condition.

This morning I spotted a little blob which turned out to be a fully developed Eastern Blue Tongue baby, quite dead and I presume still born. It seemed to be about half out of its amniotic sack. So Dax is a definite female.

It did not occur to me that Dax could have been gravid before we got her but I suppose she must have been.

What is the gestation period for eastern bluies?

If there is one dead baby would we expect to see some live ones? (There were none this morning but it was a cool night and the sun has not yet broken through today so they could be huddled up somewhere under cover and there is lots of good hibernation sites.)

Is this a normal time of year for eastern bluies to give birth? It seems odd as the babies would have no time to grow before hibernation.

Any input from the APS vets would be much appreciated.

[herptrader]

I have looked around and it seems that the gestation is about 150 days so Dax being gravid before we got her does fit.

Also my wife found another little takker exploring the fernery so I am guessing there could be a few of these guys.

We intend to take them out and keep them inside for their first winter.

I would still like to know if this time of year is "normal" for eastern bluies to give birth?

[spongebob]

In Sydney it's generally around new year.

[zulu]

Hi herptrader,they seem to take allot younger to have litters when they are kept outside around melbourne,blotchys and easterns are usually born late december and january oustside in the sydney area.Looks like you have found a few live ones so thats all good hey,richard c hasnt seen your question hes the victorian blue tongue breeder but he may have not been here long enough to be a smelly enough blurter yet .

[jordo]

My blotchies, kept outside in Vic, usually give birth from late Jan to late Feb sometimes early March. Not sure on easterns but it does seem a bit late to for her, may have just been the change of homes that changed her cycle a bit though, possibly the move from inside enclosure to outside could be the factor (if it was previously indoors?).

[herptrader]

Thanks for the replies. I suppose the hatch date is just at the outer edge of the usual range and it has been an unusually warm start to Autumn... but that changed quickly which might explain the still born full term babies. I presume it was her first birth also so inexperience could be a factor.

We only found the one live one and 2 still born ones.

Mum was our sunning herself today. She did look like she had lost more weight than just the 3 babies but she is still in good condition. We will be keeping an eye on the fernery for signs of more but I went over it with a fine tooth comb today.

[herptrader]

A PM from Beeman who gave me permission to repost to the Vets forum:

Originally Posted by beeman
Hi, just a note for your bluei post,
We havent been members long enough to post in the vets
section so we thought we would send a message.
We breed eastern bluies every year, our are housed in outdoor
pits so as to replicate nature as much as possiable.
Our birthing times varie according to what sort of weather patterns are happening in the spring when mating occurs.
If we have a warm spring start the birthing is usally early january to late january, Normal spring weather usally give us babies from early feb to the end of feb, We have never had any birth after the end of feb and have been housing and breeding them this way for about the last 10 years.We had one still born this year and it was only half formed as well the other 8 in the clutch were perfectly formed and progressed well.
We put the still born down to being a first time pregnancy for this female but she will be monitored next season to see what may
develope.
kind regards
Craig & Wendy

[herptrader]

I thought I would provide an update on this thread.

in the end we found 3 still born babies and 2 that were alive.

My hunch is that they were all born a bit premature way to late in the season and following a change in the weather. One of the live ones hardly moved for the first few days but eventually came good and today started eating like a champ.

It seems we have two baby eastern blue tongues to add to our menagerie.

[herptrader]

A couple of happy snaps of the 2 survivors feeding today:

[herptrader]

xxxxxx

Originally Posted by Aslan

Hi,

...I'm not able to post in Veteran's so PM'd...

As a kid I took in a Bluey (mid '90's) - it was a MONSTER - very large animal...

She was setup outside in Western Sydney in a 'hutch' style pit...she was kept by herself this entire period, however, the person I got her from informed me that she was often see with another Bluey on their property prior to their dog getting the second animal...

12mths after coming into out care I was out in the yard to feed her and found a handful of baby Blueys out there - she then popped out a handful more - in total my girl dropped 11 babies, however, had not seen another Bluey for over 12mths...

...my Dad did a check on the internet at the time and come across some information that suggested that Bluey may store sperm in bad times and then fertilise and give birth during good times - being so long ago, my old man doing the research and me being an early teenager means that I have NO idea where he got the info...however...it was the only explanation I could find for her giving birth 12mths after coming into our care...

Simon

[jordo]

I've also heard blueys can store sperm for long periods.
Glad you got a couple of live ones for her efforts

[JasonL]

I would hesitate to guess that maybe it was mated with late (due to introduction late in the season), that in turn caused poor basking temps late in her term of being gravid, which in turn may of effected calcium levels in the newborns and also in the adult female. I would be moving her indoors and getting some heat and weight on her.

[herptrader]

Originally Posted by JasonL

I would hesitate to guess that maybe it was mated with late (due to introduction late in the season), that in turn caused poor basking temps late in her term of being gravid, which in turn may of effected calcium levels in the newborns and also in the adult female. I would be moving her indoors and getting some heat and weight on her.

Any introductions were before she came into our care in December. Since that time she has almost doubled in size, another reason why we had no reason to suspect she was gravid. She particularly like the turtle cubes I make and freeze with a balanced mix of protein, a little calcium, herp-t-vite etc. She does not look skinny but she was looking on the tubby side before the birth, which I was happy to see with hibernation coming on.

Interestingly we decided over the weekend to set up an indoor enclosure for her. The one we have for her just needs a new substrate.

My wife has been putting her in a herparium and moving her around to give her maximum basking opportunities.

Thanks for the comments all. They are much appreciated. I have not had much experience with captive blue tongues and we sort of happened into the ones we have by accident - but we love them to bits!

[richardsc]

hi herptrader,glad u ended up with a couple,that was very late for easterns,id say perhaps its cooler in your enclosure,which delayed there being born,im on the mornington peninsula,easterns normally produce in jan/feb here,when kept outdoors

my alpine blotched drop in mid march,and for some reason,the last 3 seasons the lowlands blotcheds have dropped in very late april,im not sure why,but assume its just there natural clocks following the seasons,i didnt get any lowlands blotched this season,but remember my water dragons started mating in august,and the blotchys were a tad earlier in there mating,but the alpines still had there bubs in march

[herptrader]

Well they sure have grown.

The attached photograph was taken last month.

They now have names: B1 & B2