INTERGRADES - Your Thoughts

[Australis]

You cant compare our NATIVE fauna with anything else, show some respect.

 

[Rennie]

Can people please stop saying "intergrade/hybrid" and "intergrade/cross".
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!
The diamond/coastal intergrade is its own sub-species, thats what this thread was about, NOT HYBRIDS!

No wonder so many newbies think they are just crosses, look where this thread is going

 

[junglepython2]

You cant compare our NATIVE fauna with anything else, show some respect.

Exactly, dogs have been bred for human purposes and are domesticated, thankfuly snakes aren't domesticated yet.....

There is nothing wrong with natural intergrades other then it makes it easier to sell hybrids as something they are not.

 

[zard]

The devil is in the fine print my freind DOMESTIC dogs are all the same species. If you put a labrodor over an african wild dog that would make a hybrid. And SXC yes they are all the same species line bred from the one group of animals. That's what 10'000 years of line breeding can do.

yes but you are just being pedantic, clearly the breed of dog were chosen for simplicity and to make point without the need to go back through hundreds and thousands of years of husbandry and i suppose if we do so for dogs who is to say that initially snakes accross the world did not all derive from the same basic stock, mutating into different forms to suit the conditions in the area they came to live.
I have no problem with natural occurring intergrades, i don’t agree with people throwing two snakes together just to see what they come up with. As stated previously how can we guarantee there will be no issues with these animals down the track?

 

[sxc_celly]

Well said Rennie!

I wonder if one day our snakes will have Registered papers to prove their purity lol

 

[zard]

anyway why would anyone want to? IMO we have the best looking reptiles, how can you improve on perfection?

 

[mungus]

Can people please stop saying "intergrade/hybrid" and "intergrade/cross".
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!
The diamond/coastal intergrade is its own sub-species, thats what this thread was about, NOT HYBRIDS!

No wonder so many newbies think they are just crosses, look where this thread is going

How did we get into dogs on a herp site ???:shock:

 

[TANN-MANN]

good point, dogs have nothing to do with this i apologise for my dog contribution. but on that note dogs were purpose bred for selective jobs. here we are talking about herps that are really not gunna round up the cattle or help a blind person across the street. and we are talking about a naturally occuring intergrade, so obviously no selective breeding for hybrids...back to the thread

 

[sxc_celly]

LOL good question Mungus, and TANN-MANN no worries, youve made a good point!

 

[TANN-MANN]

cheers SXC_celly, no more hijacking for me...oops my bad again lol:lol:

 

[jack]

all breeding in captivity is selective by the breeder and bears no relation to what happens in the wild, therefore I don't care what people breed... i do care about people selling things by subterfuge to obtain more cash

 

[nightowl]

Can people please stop saying "intergrade/hybrid" and "intergrade/cross".
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!
The diamond/coastal intergrade is its own sub-species, thats what this thread was about, NOT HYBRIDS!

No wonder so many newbies think they are just crosses, look where this thread is going

Thank you Rennie!! Someone that knows something about this!

hy·brid
1. Genetics The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races.
2. a. Something of mixed origin or composition.
b. Something, such as a computer or power plant, having two kinds of components that produce the same or similar results.

3. A word whose elements are derived from different languages.


in·ter·grade
intr.v. in·ter·grad·ed, in·ter·grad·ing, in·ter·grades To merge into each other in a series of stages, forms, or types.
n. A transitional stage, form, or type

Some more info on hybrids...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid

The sooner people understand that intergrades are NOT hybrids the more accepted Port Mac Carpets will be. Port Mac Carpets are NOT a cross between coastals and diamonds, merely a locale specific carpet.

I like Port Macs and I don't mind hybrids, as long as they are advertised and sold as hybrids.

 

[learning snake man]

cainine loopus is the first dog as are all dog breeds thay are all desendants of the WOLF all dog,s big small tall fat skinny silly smart are one dog and who care,s what happen,s if thay do cross thay have been adapting for thousands of yer,s allready and will take thousand,s more but by then we humans will have left this plannet dead and void by then and only the wind will blow the sand,s of time across the dead plannet earth /

 

[bigguy]

You actually get sick of this thread coming back month after month, and no one ever seems to listern, but I will try to sort this out again, specialy for the beginners.

Hybrids. Hybrids are not natually occurring animals, but are continally created by irresponsable keepers. This is were one species like a Diamond is bred to a Carpet for example. The young are just mongrels and this practice is ILLEGAL in most states of Australia. These are cross species.

Intergrades. For some reason people think intergrades have occurred natually in the wild were somehow, many years ago, a Diamond bred with a Carpet where their borders mixed. If you are in this group you are also wrong.

Let the class begin. I will use the Carpet Python as it has the best known intergrades. The Eastern Carpet Python,(morelia spilota) according to DNA evidence is the same species wether it be the PNG, Top End, Cape York, Jungle, Coastal, Murray/Darling or Diamond. As the origional ancesters of this species moved into Australia and spread out around the eastern states, it has had to adapt to different climatic and geographical areas. The result of these changes have left us with the distinct subspecies that are listed above.

Nowhere in Australia is there a area where one subspecies just magically turned into the next. This was a suttle change, and in most areas it took many hundreds of kilometers for the changes to fully occur. These buffer zones between the 2 distinct sub species are known as the intergrade zones.

The best known of these is found in mid coast NSW. Starting just north of Coffs Harbour the Coastal Carpet starts it's transformation into the Diamond Python which finally fully appears at around Newcastle and extends to just over the Vic border. When looking at morelia spilota found in the area from Coffs to Newcastle you can see they share both charactoristics. The closer to Coffs, the more they resemble the Carpet that they started from. The closer to Newcastle, the more they resemble the Diamond that they are slowly turning into. The prettiest I have seen in this area occurr around Port Macquarie, and IMO can be far prettier than any Diamond i have ever seen, as well as being far more hardier in Captivity

Even though morelia spilota are deemed the same species by DNA, each subspecies can still be identified by slight variations in the DNA. This also includes the intergrades which have been found to differ from their origionals.

The best thing people can do to learn is to get off their computors, get into a car and travell around Australia and actually learn where you favourite species are found and to look a natual changes as they occur.

 

[sxc_celly]

Very well said Bigguy

 

[nightowl]

maybe a 'mod' can sticky some of this info so people can refer to it?

Edit; referring to bigguy's post

 

[moosenoose]

That dog is stunning Learning_snake_man!!

 

[waruikazi]

yes but you are just being pedantic, clearly the breed of dog were chosen for simplicity and to make point without the need to go back through hundreds and thousands of years of husbandry and i suppose if we do so for dogs who is to say that initially snakes accross the world did not all derive from the same basic stock, mutating into different forms to suit the conditions in the area they came to live.
I have no problem with natural occurring intergrades, i don’t agree with people throwing two snakes together just to see what they come up with. As stated previously how can we guarantee there will be no issues with these animals down the track?

Nope not being pedantic. All domestic dogs are genetically the same. You could sooner campare dogs to goldfish and all the different morphs than to carpets pythons.

 

[waruikazi]

good point, dogs have nothing to do with this i apologise for my dog contribution. but on that note dogs were purpose bred for selective jobs. here we are talking about herps that are really not gunna round up the cattle or help a blind person across the street. and we are talking about a naturally occuring intergrade, so obviously no selective breeding for hybrids...back to the thread

Nah lets keep talking about dogs. Far more interesting than re-hashing old threads time and time again.

 

[moosenoose]

I've got a Cavoodle - apparently he's classed as a breed.......of some sort! A designer dog!!...yeah that's what they call it!! A designer, not a mutt or bitza, but a designer!! hehe

http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/2003/archives/2003/roadtests/dog_breeds/cavoodle

Although he did try and attack me once :lol: