Do you believe in macroevolution?

[Surroundx]

Disclaimer: This thread has nothing to do with religion, which is a topic which may offend some (or many) people, and is consequently banned from being discussed on this forum. Many religious persons are quite comfortable with the idea that species have evolved from other species over geological periods of time (macroevolution), and hence, at least at a practical level, acceptance of the reality of macroevolution does not necessarily entail the rejection of theism (broadly, the belief in a personal god) and/or deism (broadly, the belief in an impersonal god). And likewise, the only alternative to evolution is not necessarily creation by god, whether direct or indirect (strongly-actualized or weakly-actualized as philosophers would say). Perhaps life was seeded on Earth (the Gaia principle), perhaps from beings on other planets (aliens?).

Post: Many people do not believe that one species can evolve into another species, but do accept that change within a relatively fixed "type" can occur (microevolution). The poll question under consideration is whether or not one species can transform so significantly that it may be deemed to be a wholly different species from the ancestral stock from which it is derived (macroevolution).

Please feel free to add any of your thoughts on the subject, but please do not bring religion into the discussion as I do not want this thread to be deleted or closed, but to stay open. Thankyou.

 

[Jamesss]

Absolutely. There has been so many studies done with artificial selection that have shown insane amounts of change in a species over a very small number of generations, I have no doubt that these effects multiplied over a long period of time would very easily lead to unbelievable levels of change.

 

[saximus]

I'm not sure it's a matter of belief. I'm pretty sure it's been done in the lab with bacteria and certain kinda of fly

 

[PMyers]

It is truly a sign of the sad state of affairs when the type of disclaimer typed above is deemed necessary. Alas, it most definitely is!

I consider myself to be scientifically minded, but I am certainly no scientist - I haven't put in the hard yards necessary to deem myself as such, and likely never will. However I have always found the notion of evolution to be fascinating, and for some reason it simply clicks with me, meaning I can understand the basic principals with ease. Of course the more technical and in-depth instances of evolution, or "theories-within-the-theory" seem to get a tad beyond my means

So yes; to answer your question, I do believe in macro-evolution. Quite emphatically so. I can see the evidence (which those of you who have read my rantings on such topics as the recent "panther" thread would know I hold in the highest regard) through fossilised records, which to me read as clearly as a flowchart.

 

[Jamesss]

Saximus, that's microevolution. But yes, it's no longer really a matter of belief, there is enough evidence to classify macroevolution as a theory as far as I'm aware.

 

[cement]

However I do remember reading about a study done on fruit flies as they have a very fast generational turnover, and the results were that no different species evolved. Sure there was mutations etc but in the end they were still just left with fruit fly.

 

[Jamesss]

Why would they evolve though? They were kept in conditions that were specifically to house them comfortably, so it is still just normal survival of the fittest. There is no characteristics that could come out in that sort of time-frame that would benefit the flies to any great degree, so there was no factor pushing evolution.

 

[Surroundx]

Instances of speciation have been observed both in the wild and also in the laboratory. For a full list of research papers documenting speciation events visit Observed Instances of Speciation

 

[Wrightpython]

There is enough scientific material to totally prove Evolution not just microevolution. If stuff did not evolve then we wouldnt have the animals we have today after the meteor hit and wiped out 90% of the planet. They can prove certain types of marine life are unchanged in 135 million years and crocs have been around for millenia but mammals as we know are only in the last million years give or take a week. Humans are the best example of micro evolution, we get faster taller stronger every generation or so this is evolving and as its on a tiny basis it is microevolution. Take legless lizards, did they evolve without legs abd are still growing them threw evolution or did they have them and are losing them thru evolution, we wont know for another ten thousand years or do we. Even the most religious of folk must believe in some evolution.

 

[Jamesss]

OK...who are the two people that voted it doesn't occur? Fair enough if you don't believe it, but please put forward your reasoning, I would actually be interested. I like to have my views challenged.

And wright, that's very good reasoning, but the same people who don't believe in evolution are very often the same people who believe God popped out the world in 7 days, about 6,000 years ago, so saying 'small changes add up over billions of years' really doesn't work for them.

 

[miss_mosher]

I myself believe in more of a creationist view (nobody argue, just stating ) but I absolutely believe in evolution on a viral level. But then I also consider the amount of man-made viruses that are introduced. But yeh

 

[Surroundx]

miss_mosher,

Can you expand upon your view at all? What do you mean "more" of a creationist view? Does that mean that your not entirely a creationist? (not arguing, just curious )

 

[Jamesss]

I myself believe in more of a creationist view (nobody argue, just stating ) but I absolutely believe in evolution on a viral level. But then I also consider the amount of man-made viruses that are introduced. But yeh

I'm enjoying this thread, so it's definitely not the place to start a conversation about the merits of creationism/macroevolution, but can I suggest reading The Greates Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins? It's actually a really good, well written book that has a lot of information about evolution on all levels, and he avoids his usual provocative tone, so it might be a more pleasant experience than other books on the subject.

 

[Monitor_Keeper]

I voted no ( i don't think i need to provide my reasoning's if you know me from previous threads )

 

[miss_mosher]

I would say I'm a creationist, however I do believe that evolution in viruses exist. I'm not sure of that of course, but from what I've researched myself i definitely think its possible. And I totally respect everyone's views, so don't go hating on me haha

 

[Surroundx]

TeKnO,

Could you please briefly summarize your reasoning for those of us who are new to the forum?

 

[Monitor_Keeper]

I will not break the disclaimer but i am interested in who also voted no

and why

 

[Jamesss]

I voted no ( i don't think i need to provide my reasoning's if you know me from previous threads )

Aw, now that's just teasing....back soon, previous post trawling I go.... ughh.

EDIT: Yeah, too much effort. If you can be bothered to put forward an outline of your belief then I'll deal with that, but I'd much rather be watching movies than reading all your comments

 

[Surroundx]

miss_mosher,

New and resistant strains of viruses emerge quite regularly (alarmingly so), so you are quite correct that viruses do evolve.

 

[Wrightpython]

OK...who are the two people that voted it doesn't occur? Fair enough if you don't believe it, but please put forward your reasoning, I would actually be interested. I like to have my views challenged.

And wright, that's very good reasoning, but the same people who don't believe in evolution are very often the same people who believe God popped out the world in 7 days, about 6,000 years ago, so saying 'small changes add up over billions of years' really doesn't work for them.

Scientists have proven that the world has been here for 340 million years when it was created on that tuesday in spring so the thought that it was created 6000years ago is rediculous the world is still flat i suppose to. There is a tree in northern england and the same dna is found on opposite ends of a five acre wood. the plant has continually dropped its branches into ground and continued growing in different directions and now covers five acres, one tree. It has been core dated to be 7500 years old and is the worlds largest tree and also the oldest and in religious veiws it means the world must have been created around this tree as it was here first. Evolution is easy to see, Dinosaurs were here then they were wiped out, then more dinosaurs were here 50 million years later then they were wiped out, now humans and stuff are here and the way were going soon we will be wiped out and something else will evolve. I hope its dinosaurs again because i really want a raptor.