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Gee, I keep my hatchy GTPs in highly humid tubs for the first 2-3 sheds, and never had a problem... I've spent around 30 years working in the environments that these various species live in, as a collector and museum employee, so I've had a bit of time to think about the whys and wherefores of the observations I've made. I absolutely agree that for the most part the larger pythons live very well under very similar conditions, but to say that there is no variation in the needs of ANY species is just plain silly.

Jamie
 
Thread reopened. Please keep it civilized.
 
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I don't even like the look of the zebras, its funny how people try to change nature and make all these different varietys and crosses just for money really. We have some of the most beautiful pythons here in australia we should just admire them for what they are. Its just like an albino animal, its a dud in the eyes of nature but to humans its desirable because its rare. I just don't get why someone would pay thousands of dollars for some of these crosses when they don't even look good.
 
I don't even like the look of the zebras, its funny how people try to change nature and make all these different varietys and crosses just for money really. We have some of the most beautiful pythons here in australia we should just admire them for what they are. Its just like an albino animal, its a dud in the eyes of nature but to humans its desirable because its rare. I just don't get why someone would pay thousands of dollars for some of these crosses when they don't even look good.

They don't look good in your opinion. Remember that. Your opinion.
 
Lol yeah mate my opinion, does it look like I was speaking for everyone? I swear I said "I don't even like the look of the zebras"
 
Gee, I keep my hatchy GTPs in highly humid tubs for the first 2-3 sheds, and never had a problem... I've spent around 30 years working in the environments that these various species live in, as a collector and museum employee, so I've had a bit of time to think about the whys and wherefores of the observations I've made. I absolutely agree that for the most part the larger pythons live very well under very similar conditions, but to say that there is no variation in the needs of ANY species is just plain silly.

Jamie
I maybe didn't make myself clear enough. I was mostly speaking on Morelia requirement being the same in captivity not all species. But there is more then one way to skin a cat and my husbandry works for me, just like yours works for you. I think more people to ask why they are doing something not just go off the first book.
 
serpentaria, I dont have proof, same as you dont have proof that they are. IJs seem to have a habit of popping out the odd unusual animal so it certainly seems plauseable. Ive heard it from too many people too many times not to have considerable dought that they are pure jungles.
its already been proven as to where the zebra gene came from, pure jungles, by reputable sources, even if it was overseas breeders. If you don't already know that then its not my problem. I've already researched my information because I need to if I am going to purchase one of these animals and add them to my collection eventually. So far the only morphs that have originated from IJs are Axanthic, independant of the same Coastal gene (which has not yet been proven out independantly as far as I know) and also the Granite morph, which has been proven that it originated from pure IJs. You need to research your info more.
 
The way i see it is when i see pure this or that MAYDAY MAYDAY.
I gave up on jags when years back the original founder pair were displayed ,they didnt look like two coastals ,which is why the genes are stuffed.
 
zulu this thread is about zebra carpets, not jaguar carpets, both are two completely different morphs

All the same old crap ,the jags were supposed to come from pure coastals and the zebs from pure jungles, i dont believe it ,those that want to can and good luck to them.
 
I maybe didn't make myself clear enough. I was mostly speaking on Morelia requirement being the same in captivity not all species. But there is more then one way to skin a cat and my husbandry works for me, just like yours works for you. I think more people to ask why they are doing something not just go off the first book.

I've been keeping snakes since about 1958, when books on keeping Australian snakes were non-existent. Much of what I do now comes from basic trial & error matey, with the addition of very useful information gleaned from face-to-face discussions with the likes of Dave & Tracey Barker & Rico Walder over the last 15 years. It becomes perfectly clear why these people do what they do when you speak with people like this, and visit the habitats of the creatures concerned.

Jamie
 
I've been keeping snakes since about 1958, when books on keeping Australian snakes were non-existent. Much of what I do now comes from basic trial & error matey, with the addition of very useful information gleaned from face-to-face discussions with the likes of Dave & Tracey Barker & Rico Walder over the last 15 years. It becomes perfectly clear why these people do what they do when you speak with people like this, and visit the habitats of the creatures concerned.

Jamie
It was after I visited dave breeding facility and have a very good chat with him, that I came home and started keeping the pythons the way I do, with great success.... Just because you having been keeping longer then me or can try and drop a few names doesn't mean my methods are wrong or don't work because I'm not the only person that keeps all their Morelia's at the same temps and humidity with great success.
 
serpentaria, Sorry but maybe you should do more reasearch, jags were supposed to be from 2 pure coastals but it in reality it came out that one if not both were IJ carpets, yes another morph of IJs. If you think that the zebra shown in this thread is pure, then have another good look at it.
I agree 100 % with the zulu warrior, let anyone belive they are pure if they want, lifes like that lol.
 
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It was after I visited dave breeding facility and have a very good chat with him, that I came home and started keeping the pythons the way I do, with great success.... Just because you having been keeping longer then me or can try and drop a few names doesn't mean my methods are wrong or don't work because I'm not the only person that keeps all their Morelia's at the same temps and humidity with great success.

Well, perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough... I don't have many species now, but certainly you can keep the majority of Morelia species/subspecies, even juvies, in the same way for all of them. All of the mainland Carpets, spilota ssp and bredli, Scrubs, even Water Pythons and Olives are perfectly happy within the same husbandry parameters - I have no argument about that. With the exception of two species - GTPs and Diamonds. These are unique niche animals, and while they will perhaps survive for a few years without the keeper acknowledging that they have a couple of extra requirements to ensure their long-term good health, their health may suffer. Heaps of Diamond keepers have experienced the physical collapse & death of their apparently healthy Diamonds after 6 or 7 years, because they keep them too warm. There is a reason that GTPs have not spread down to Victoria, or Diamonds have not covered the entire east coast... it may just have something to do with the environmental requirements of each of those species and their potential for long-term survival outside their range.

But if whatever you do works for you matey, go for it :)!

Jamie
 
Agree Jamie.
Diamonds can do great for about 7 years unless you give them the right conditions. One of the least hardiest pythons.
 
Well btsmorphs I wouldn't keep tigers on heat in Queensand as an example to breed olives you need to get them very cold at night. There are many variants to consider to be a great keeper we learn ourselves and from others, I feed and breed at the same time for some species etc
 
Back to the topic it's such a shame that smugglers get rewarded for their efforts, both $$ and held up as top breeders. To me jags and now zebras are a stain on the hobby in Australia which fuels further mistrust from the authorities. Somewhere along the way we accepted this behaviour as long as pretty / different forms come available.
 
It seems that more people are slowly beginning to appreciate the dedication a handful of breeders have committed decades to. Keeping locality stock 100% pure and line breeding for selective traits within a sub species. A large portion of fancy patterns and morphs can be attained through pure locality stock. I would think the majority, the only constraint is merely time and achieving some of these goals is certainly the long way round. I myself see it as the scenic route.

When jags smashed their way into the hobby, breeders had choices to make. Some got excited and eagerly dived in, some stayed out and other just got their feet wet. In any case I personally saw jags as a 'short-cut' to fancy looking carpets. So did many others when they were first spoken of. I found it amusing to watch some individuals mock and scrutinise those who dove into jags only to dive into them themselves. Will the time come again when people are embarrassed to say they own them?

I sincerely doubt many breeders today could draw an extensively accurate 'family tree' of the animals within their collection. Not just who they purchased animals from, but where the animals originated. How many breeders can be completely confident of their own collections? How far back can they go until it gets blurry? Jags will just further the confusion in time, especially with their siblings.

A few people preach that captive animals hold no conservational value. Perhaps not now, but what will tomorrow bring? Who knows what Homo sapiens will stuff up next? The bottom line is some keepers maintain a purebred collection because they enjoy the natural history attached to their animals. Others like fancy snakes in their cages. They are both challenging, but one is cloaked in mystery, pirates and porkpies..

Just ask yourself..

If you had the choice between two identical looking carpet pythons. Both are High Yellow and RP with the same mode of inheritance to produce similar progeny. One is a RPM Jungle Jag and the other is a pedigree jungle, line bred from the Palmerstone. Which would you choose?

Your answer would sum up your true opinion on jag/RPM's..
 
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