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There seems to be both in the mix. The bloodline that i sent to Mark is still in the mix but as said every time i breed back over that bloodline i get too much pattern in the young, so i concentrate more on the other 2 bloodlines for far better results. The hypos i now produce are 3rd gen from these animals..
I thought that a super if thats what you want to call them are from a mating from 2 first gen hypos.?
when you breed 2 co dom hypos together you get 50% hypo, 25% normal and 25% super hypos. A super form when bred to a unrelated wild type will produce a whole clutch of hypos. if you are getting whole clutches of hypos? id say there is a fair chance they have a simple mode of inheritance not just polymorphic because even when you breed to hypo bredli together you can still get classic forms that don't produce hypos.
 
This thread is a good indication that if the horse hasn't already bolted, it's heading out the gate at a run

Its already done and dusted. What I am seeing evolve is a division in the hobby where people are seen as purists and hybridisers (is that even a word?). The people who keep pure animals (within the sub species) are only buying from other purists and avoiding the others.
 
btsmorhps, I get 100% hypos in the clutch. Thats breeding two 2nd gen hypos together.
All the young are high quality. So what do that make these? Super duppa hypos lol.

Amazingmorelia.
I know of a number of people that feel exactly the same way. They wont buy animals off or deal with anyone that keeps jags even if they also keep pure stuff. There will always be that question mark over the animals even if they are pure.
Yes i agree that pure, especially pure local lines will command the best prices in years to come, and not that many as its already starting to happen.
 
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By the looks of things most of these young are going to be far better quality than the parents, will be a long wait to raise these and see what pops out when they are bred together.
To me being 100% pure makes them so much more special, oh of course silly me, being 100% pure Australian also makes them more special.
 
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By the looks of things most of these young are going to be far better quality than the parents, will be a long wait to raise these and see what pops out when they are bred together.
To me being 100% pure makes them so much more special.

by the sound of it your hypos are co dom and the reason you are only getting high quality hypos is because both parents are super form meaning all babies are also super form.
 
Amazingmorelia.
I know of a number of people that feel exactly the same way. They wont buy animals off or deal with anyone that keeps jags even if they also keep pure stuff. There will always be that question mark over the animals even if they are pure.
Yes i agree that pure, especially pure local lines will command the best prices in years to come, and not that many as its already starting to happen.

Amen to that.
I am a happy purist, and know that what I keep is 100%.
There are some very long yards been done by these people with projects that take many years to acheive. The worst thing is that when they do acheive their goals they are branded as breeding jag blood..... not so, we seem underground now as the jag scene does its thing, but it is only natural that those keeping and breeding pure lines, are of course a patient bunch, and like True blue mentions, the price for pure will go up, and buyers will have to be careful who they buy from.
This isn't a dig at the jaggers, as mentioned before yep your here to stay. It won't bother us.
 
This isn't a dig at the jaggers, as mentioned before yep your here to stay. It won't bother us

whilst it may not bother you personally , it clearly does still bother plenty of people and they are vocal about it
 
I did miss the point Rob sorry.
I was trying to say that yes be carefully a what your purchasing Use a trusted breeder and what I'm say in the breeder just doesn't have to know the whole history of their parents but at least sell it for what it is. Their is no reason for this mistake any more you can check up on every breeder, just look at what they sell!!!!!!!!
I sell every thing for what it is jag sib, coastal cross you can find all this info on me anywhere, my web page facebook even get in touch with my clients. it is as it is.
Sorry I know I could a little of track dodgy breeders just sit me bad.

Contradicting much mate? Aren't you currently selling "PURE" coastal jags at the moment that in this country is impossible plain and simple! Why would you mislabel an animal like this when your above comments state you don't mislabel?
 
Contradicting much mate? Aren't you currently selling "PURE" coastal jags at the moment that in this country is impossible plain and simple! Why would you mislabel an animal like this when your above comments state you don't mislabel?

''impossible plain and simple'' you are very sure of yourself but do you have any proof to back your statement up? there are pure coastal jags in Australia, so sorry but you are wrong... the line simon got his hands on weren't the only line brought in.
 
There is no such thing as a pure coastal jag and there never has been.
Do some research and you will find that the original jags were produced from an IJ carpet.
 
There is no such thing as a pure coastal jag and there never has been.
Do some research and you will find that the original jags were produced from an IJ carpet.

unfortunately there is no way to prove what the original jags come from and the stories are all hearsay... but the story goes that they were pure coastal pairing and there are people who have only crossed these originals back to pure coastals which is the lines that people are referring to when they say pure coastal jags and these lines are in Australia.
 
pure coastal jag, ie,

"Made in Australia from local and imported products" .....just like the label on the jar says when in the supermarket looking for some good ol' pure Aussie products
 
unfortunately there is no way to prove what the original jags come from and the stories are all hearsay... but the story goes that they were pure coastal pairing and there are people who have only crossed these originals back to pure coastals which is the lines that people are referring to when they say pure coastal jags and these lines are in Australia.

And how on Earth do you know this, only those individuals that have imported these Jags would know which bloodlines they came from and even then it's all heresay and rumors if they are pure Coastal or not. Jags are a mess and I really don't see how anyone can still label them are 'pure' in my eyes.
 
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BASICS........Morph breeders are going to continue there work to produce snakes that look great for the reptile/pet industry......Purists need to give um a break and a JAG was not man made!...but breeding lines of pures I admire greatly (I own some fantastic Wheeties and Darwins)...BUT I also got a Jag as a family member so that I could study and make my own decisions about them!...does this make me a bad person???....hey peeps lets just calm this down hey....we all friends on here after all....and if the people that know me think im a bad person for owning a Jag then so be it as you also are not the people I know.......Friends everyone8)
 
If this is aimed at me I apologise if I seemed upfront, no offence intended to any keepers.

My point was that noone even knows for sure if Jags were the result of a Coastal to Coastal breeding or not. Even if they were, how can breeders in Australia know if their lines are 'pure' or not unless they had direct information given to them from the smugglers about their origins?
 
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If this is aimed at me I apologise if I seemed upfront, no offence intended to any keepers.

My point was that noone even knows for sure if Jags were the result of a Coastal to Coastal breeding or not. Even if they were, how can breeders in Australia know if their lines are 'pure' or not unless they had direct information given to them from the smugglers about their origins?
As u r fully aware there is the original write up about the First ever jags then crossed back etc...not got the link at hand but was posted on here somewhere...very interesting reading....Vix any jags (and u r correct) that entered this country I very much doubt would have been pure Coastal....But I would say they were prob as close as u could have got ... say 88%....but as u r fully aware also that percentages r only as close as u can get and in no way accurate....fortunate or not they r here to stay...I regularly post on a UK site (cause im a pommy lol) and there crossing of Morelia would blow you away.......Guna happen here eventually (sry already has) and we just have to get used to it......but on the other side of the coin yourself and others are keeping the other pure part going strong with some amazing inline bred snakes.....Keep the good work up............Ps vix im hoping that little wheety of mine guna drop next week but not 100% sure (always next yr)...she either fat or couple little eggs in there Ha ha.......Ozimid
 
As u r fully aware there is the original write up about the First ever jags then crossed back etc...not got the link at hand but was posted on here somewhere...very interesting reading....Vix any jags (and u r correct) that entered this country I very much doubt would have been pure Coastal....But I would say they were prob as close as u could have got ... say 88%....but as u r fully aware also that percentages r only as close as u can get and in no way accurate....fortunate or not they r here to stay...I regularly post on a UK site (cause im a pommy lol) and there crossing of Morelia would blow you away.......Guna happen here eventually (sry already has) and we just have to get used to it......but on the other side of the coin yourself and others are keeping the other pure part going strong with some amazing inline bred snakes.....Keep the good work up............Ps vix im hoping that little wheety of mine guna drop next week but not 100% sure (always next yr)...she either fat or couple little eggs in there Ha ha.......Ozimid
Is the user name change part of a forum make over? You used to get suspended a lot and now you are trying to calm people down.lol.
 
In the case of Jags that come from the originally imported line and have only ever been bred with Coastals, I can sort of understand the use of the word "pure". If people understand and acknowledge that the founder animals may or may not have been pure Coastal, it makes sense as a sort of short-hand description. Perhaps a consensus needs to be made for a better term instead though?
 
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