What should be done with sibs?

[Glenn]

I'm not sure people are recognising the difference between a morph and a hybrid. I suppose that's because there are so many hybrid morphs. A naturally occurring colour variation in a species does not pollute the gene pool and can be bred in or out (to a degree). The species is still pure, well, really no less pure than any other mating that is not done via natural selection.

Crossing species either for the visual result or to transfer a colour variation to another species is an entirely different matter. I don't agree with it personally as I believe it does permanently pollute the gene pool, but I don't judge others for doing it.

I agree with earleir threads that information should be given so everyone can make an informed choice. One person not doing 'the right thing' then takes that decision out of the hands of every subsequent breeder/keeper further down that animals family tree.

You don't have to like them but don't consider morphs mongrels. They are no less pure than you or I unless you represent the 'wild type' human - I don't actually know what that looks like, but if you've got blonde hair, blue eyes or one of any thousands of other genetically inherited traits from your parents, then you're a morph too.

 

[Ramsayi]

People have it back to front.Sibs should be kept,it's the jags that should be euthed given their predisposition to getting twisty,but then I guess things like that can be overlooked as long as you get a pretty snake to look at.

 

[Darlyn]

So what should be done with the sibs?


Chuckles at your post Rams

 

[cement]

Exactly........well said Cement.

All you hybrid haters had better get used to it , because they will be the thing of the future.
nobody is going to want to see the same old .....same old.... purebred perfect looking BHP or same old Bearded Dragon just like the one on the side of the road...because they have seen it all before....BORING.....!
Hybrids create interest and those breeding them dont get on here because they hear the same old thing time and time again......BORING....!

So....if you have all these Jags and whatever crossbreeds that you dont want , then give them to me and they will live out their lives in peace without you hanging over them with hate and anguish on how will you kill it.......geeeez....!

And well said Hulloosenator,!!

I couldn't have asked for, or written a better reply myself! You tick all the boxes!

The "thing" of the future? Like when mah rich dahddy bought me a cadilac??Lol!!

 

[hulloosenator]

Some people paint their nails because they think they are boring lol I like mine just the way nature made em

Also please don't include me in your statistics, I am somebody and when you say nobody wants to see the same old snakes you are including me. Speak for yourself.

i am speaking for myself.......maybe you should go paint your nails then , eh ? ...... and i can include whoever i want to ........ i dont recall including you personally , you did...!

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hulloosenator,-

What a load of rubbish.
As much can be done with pure animals as can be done with mongrel crap. More infact if you know what you are doing.

ahhhh......i see . You are obviously one of those people who know everything and everyone who does something different to you doesnt know what they are doing. Seems to be a few on here like you.

 

[TrueBlue]

hulloosenator,-

lol, not at all. I know bugger all compared to most the decent herpers in the hobby.
Hybrids the way of the future is just rubbish, maybe in your SMALL circle. A circle that to most means nothing at all.

ramsayi, so very very true, its the poor jags that need to be delt with not the healthy animals.

 

[Wild~Touch]

Helloosenator Island: That is where to put the poor scrambled sibs and poor neuro jags and any other "beleiver" then they can all live (?) in peace.

Just my opinion

Cheers
Sandee

 

[RedFox]

Exactly........well said Cement.

All you hybrid haters had better get used to it , because they will be the thing of the future.
nobody is going to want to see the same old .....same old.... purebred perfect looking BHP or same old Bearded Dragon just like the one on the side of the road...because they have seen it all before....BORING.....!
Hybrids create interest and those breeding them dont get on here because they hear the same old thing time and time again......BORING....!

So....if you have all these Jags and whatever crossbreeds that you dont want , then give them to me and they will live out their lives in peace without you hanging over them with hate and anguish on how will you kill it.......geeeez....!

I guess I am nobody according to your statement. IMO there are very few pythons around that could compete with a purebred, perfect looking Pilbara BHP. I wish I could see some of those (in the pilbara of course) by the road but would settle with a captive.

Just looking at some of our purebred captives they are far from boring. Albino olive, high yellow jungle, rp coastal, platnium mac anyone? As for Bearded dragons have you seen some of Rick Walkers?

i am speaking for myself.......maybe you should go paint your nails then , eh ? ...... and i can include whoever i want to ........ i dont recall including you personally , you did...

Well by saying no one wants boring purebred animals you did exclude a great deal of the hobby.

hulloosenator,-

What a load of rubbish.
As much can be done with pure animals as can be done with mongrel crap. More infact if you know what you are doing.

I'm sorry to tell you Trublue, but no one wants your boring purebred coastals. Don't worry though I'll take them off your hands and give them a home where they can live out their life in peace without people overlooking them with hate and anguish at how boring they are. hahaha.

I can trade you a woma so you can breed carpets x womas (Comas lol). Wouldn't that be interesting?

 

[TrueBlue]

Great, thanks heaps, that means i dont have to cull them anymore. lol.

 

[PythonLegs]

There are people who breed reptiles because they like reptiles.

And there are people who breed reptiles because they want to make something pretty. These people are stupid. That is all.

 

[longqi]

There are people who breed reptiles because they like reptiles.

And there are people who breed reptiles because they want to make something pretty. These people are stupid. That is all.

Absolutely incorrect
There is nothing wrong with trying to make a 'pretty' snake
If done through line breeding etc it can take many years and a huge amount of dedication disappointment and joy

Where do you think full striped high yellow jungles etc etc etc came from??

So please dont trivialise the huge and continuing efforts of some of the best breeders on Planet Earth

Their work has made Aussie carpets world famous
That is what threads like this are trying to protect

 

[PythonLegs]

See...just because you say something is incorrect, doesnt make it so.
Fact, no returns.

 

[andynic07]

I found this on an overseas Morelia site , it appears that they have the same fights in America with purists and cross breeding.

The caption said a swallow building the future of Morelia.


It was followed by a lot of comments arguing from both sides of the fence.

 

[longqi]

I found this on an overseas Morelia site , it appears that they have the same fights in America with purists and cross breeding.

The caption said a swallow building the future of Morelia.


It was followed by a lot of comments arguing from both sides of the fence.

American European and British isles breeders would kill for some of the pure lines coming out in Aus

Most cannot understand why we breed hybrids when our native carpet lines are already nearly as good as their hybrids
To find a pure line anywhere outside Australia is getting harder and harder

Every day on every reptile forum over seas there is a thread or twenty
"What snake is this??? I think Its a xxxxx but my friends think its a yyyyy and the breeders doesnt know the parentage?"

ONLY correct answer in 99% of those cases
"It looks like a zzzz, but exactly what it is is anybodys guess"

Those threads cover virtually every reptile species in captivity and for those reptile owners the problem can never be fixed now

In Australia you still have many pure lines
Your new line bred morphs are breaking into new territory every month
Some Aussie pure lines are any reptile lovers dream

To risk all that by NOT culling siblings is highly irresponsible in my opinion

Some breeders of hybrids use the excuse... "I love reptiles; How can I kill hybrid siblings?"
Answer is simple
You kill them to protect the viability of the Australia reptile industry

Hybrids have their place in this industry
Paint jobs in anything from cars to pets appeal to some people
But hybrid siblings are a whole new ball game

 

[andynic07]

American European and British isles breeders would kill for some of the pure lines coming out in Aus

Most cannot understand why we breed hybrids when our native carpet lines are already nearly as good as their hybrids
To find a pure line anywhere outside Australia is getting harder and harder

Every day on every reptile forum over seas there is a thread or twenty
"What snake is this??? I think Its a xxxxx but my friends think its a yyyyy and the breeders doesnt know the parentage?"

ONLY correct answer in 99% of those cases
"It looks like a zzzz, but exactly what it is is anybodys guess"

Those threads cover virtually every reptile species in captivity and for those reptile owners the problem can never be fixed now

In Australia you still have many pure lines
Your new line bred morphs are breaking into new territory every month
Some Aussie pure lines are any reptile lovers dream

To risk all that by NOT culling siblings is highly irresponsible in my opinion

Some breeders of hybrids use the excuse... "I love reptiles; How can I kill hybrid siblings?"
Answer is simple
You kill them to protect the viability of the Australia reptile industry

Hybrids have their place in this industry
Paint jobs in anything from cars to pets appeal to some people
But hybrid siblings are a whole new ball game

Very well put, from what I read a lot of the blame for the muddied lines is being placed on Irian Jaya carpets, is this because they are mixed with a lot of animals for the bright yellow colour? I also saw a BHP picture posted and the owner said that it was a Pilbara region BHP, is it possible in the USA to be that sure of locality when it is hard for us to be sure of locality in Australia?

 

[longqi]

Very well put, from what I read a lot of the blame for the muddied lines is being placed on Irian Jaya carpets, is this because they are mixed with a lot of animals for the bright yellow colour? I also saw a BHP picture posted and the owner said that it was a Pilbara region BHP, is it possible in the USA to be that sure of locality when it is hard for us to be sure of locality in Australia?

Irian Jayas were mixed into the jag line to improve the yellow and decrease the size
Lot of people loved the jag paint job but didnt want 13ft ones

Now most of the international and Aussie jags have xxx% IJ in them

Where everything gets screwed up is here
breeder makes jagxdiamond
gets some cool jags
sell hybrid siblings as 'pure' diamond or coastal depending on what they look like
Siblings change hands a few times
new breeder buys 'pure' coastal and breeds it

hatchies have coastal/irian jaya/diamond genes

Slightly strange snakes pop out
New thread
"What is my snake??"

Names like Biak, Pilbara, Tomani, Wheatbelt, Palmerston are tossed around all over the place
Impossible in every case to prove anything
So international breeders just use words that sound good to get the best return on investment

 

[champagne]

Very well put, from what I read a lot of the blame for the muddied lines is being placed on Irian Jaya carpets, is this because they are mixed with a lot of animals for the bright yellow colour? I also saw a BHP picture posted and the owner said that it was a Pilbara region BHP, is it possible in the USA to be that sure of locality when it is hard for us to be sure of locality in Australia?

in the USA and Europe they have access to pure stock from zoos this is how a lot of their pure lines come from.

 

[Shotta]

cant they just make the sibs sterile? or is there no such thing as that?

 

[andynic07]

cant they just make the sibs sterile? or is there no such thing as that?

I am sure it would cost more money than the snake is worth if it is possible.

in the USA and Europe they have access to pure stock from zoos this is how a lot of their pure lines come from.

How does a private breeder apply for the use of a zoo animal? Also I would think it would be hard to get two of the same locality animals wouldn't it?

 

[larks]

These threads always make me laugh when I can be stuffed reading them. But this thing about all jag breeders be dishonest is just not true, I believe most of us are as honest as we can be. That's right I said us because I breed jags god forbid, guess what I also breed pure lines and I have never in my life put down a healthy snake. But unfortunately not everyone is honest weather they breed hybrids or pure. There was a lot of dishonesty in this hobby before jags came on the scene. At the end of the day I wouldn't purchase a jag from anyone I thought was dishonest and I wouldn't buy pure reptiles from anyone I though was dishonest either.