Why are Green Tree Pythons so expensive?

[CGSwans]

Hey guys, sorry if this is a bit of a newbie question.

Other snakes - notably Womas, Black-headeds and Centralian Carpets - have come down notably in price over recent years. I don't have any (my one Stimson's is the extent of my snake collection for the forseeable future, sadly) but I dream enough to look at the prices every now and again. Womas, in particular, seem to have come down in price over the past three or four years.

My question is simple. Why doesn't simple market economics seem to apply to GTPs? At prices often in excess of $10k, surely demand cannot outstrip supply so drastically? What am I missing?

 

[callith]

From what i have been told they are hard to breed (know someone who didn't even get 10% fertile eggs) and they are rare in the wild and therefor cannot be taken.

But thats only what i've been told, not sure if its true or not

 

[spilota_variegata]

Hey guys, sorry if this is a bit of a newbie question.

Other snakes - notably Womas, Black-headeds and Centralian Carpets - have come down notably in price over recent years. I don't have any (my one Stimson's is the extent of my snake collection for the forseeable future, sadly) but I dream enough to look at the prices every now and again. Womas, in particular, seem to have come down in price over the past three or four years.

My question is simple. Why doesn't simple market economics seem to apply to GTPs? At prices often in excess of $10k, surely demand cannot outstrip supply so drastically? What am I missing?

Disposable incomes have become greater over the years. It will be very interesting to see what happens with the price of GTPs over the next 5 years or so. There has been a downward trend in the price of hatchlings but it appears adults are still quite expensive.

 

[Frozenmouse]

same as woma s bhps ect give it some time once a few good blood lines are established and the captive stock numbers increase the price will come down. eventually.

 

[Vincent]

In a lot of cases the price advertised is different to the price it is actually sold for. Most breeders wont tell people this. In my opinion most adults are overpriced, especially when for males only. But they'll remain expensive for a fair while yet because so many people want them. I cant see them being much below $2000 in the next ten years. JMO.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

While breeding success has improved somewhat (thanks mainly to Greg Maxwell and his generously offered information) there is huge pent-up demand for GTPs, and this will remain the case for quite some time. It is an extraordinarily beautiful species, not difficult to maintain, and many people aspire to own them simply because they are so beautiful.

They are more difficult to breed than most pythons, and while there will be a gradual decline in prices in the years to come, it won't be as spectacular as the price-crash exhibited by rough-scaled pythons in the past 3-4 years. These have proven to be very easily bred, and while they are an interesting snake for specialist keepers, if you don't know what you're looking at, many people would think they were fairly plain carpets. (I don't think of them this way by the way, all you rough-scaled python owners...)

Male GTPs are often more in demand because they are less common it seems and to breed most Morelia it is better to have more males than females.

So, like anything that has become a "commodity," it is simple supply and demand that dictates price. While demand is high, the price will reflect that.

Jamie.

 

[djfreshy]

The thing I dont get is other countries where the GTP are not natives are selling them way below what than what we sell them for!

 

[CGSwans]

The thing I dont get is other countries where the GTP are not natives are selling them way below what than what we sell them for!

That part I understand. Aren't GTPs from New Guinea available as wild caught? That reduces the scarcity greatly.

 

[NickM]

Gtps are not particularily hard to breed. I would take exeption to anything that praises Grex Maxwells book also.

Even here where they are cheap and bred in decent numbers , most breeders still dont understand these snakes. Books alike Maxwells do damage in many regards by perpetuating incorrect information and common myths about this species.

Just look at most of the pictures you see in that book. Virtually all the very unusuall looking animals are still changing color. The overall effect of this is that it gives the fals impression that these animals stay like this into adulthood when in reality almost none do.

Another problem that plagues keepers here, and will in Australia if one takes Maxwells book seriously , in obesity.

I cant count how many posts I have read about enormous clutches with low fertility.

This is a small species that is not designed to lay 30+ eggs, yet we see huge , overfed females routinly lay in excess of 30 eggs, usually with dismal fertility.

Look at some of the pics of adults in Maxwells book, most are obese, and this is the cuase of most of the reproductive problems people have with this species.

Maxwells book is at best a decent guide to keeping them alive but much of it should be viewed with skepticism.

Nick

 

[herptrader]

Gtps are not particularily hard to breed. I would take exeption to anything that praises Grex Maxwells book also.

What have you got against Greg Maxwell's book?

I think it is one of the most useful books for python breeders around. Greg goes into great detail explaining what works for him. For example he goes though all the techniques he uses to get hatchlings feeding and the order in which he applies them. This is something that so many authors leave out but it is precisely the sort of information that many people need to know. I recommend his books (either the original and the updated version) to anyone with an interest in breeding Australian pythons.

 

[Kali7]

question of supply and demand AND what prices people are WILLING to pay. If suddenly everyone said, nup, not going to pay that much, the price would go down.

AND if there are so hard to breed, there wouldnt be so many in USA.

 

[dragon lady]

Morelia_Hunter also has a thread on the GTP'S with farming.........

Basically..........price will demand respect!

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

I like Greg Maxwells book, but I can understand what Nick M is saying. The fact is they are for more experienced keepers but if you have your husbandry correct for other species you will be able to keep them healthy. They are just a lot less tollerant to keeper mistakes. They are hardier than people think they are and are more tollerant of a dry atmosphere than an overly wet environment.They have become easier over years to breed but that is only because some breeders managed to breed wild caught females. The same goes for ball pythons, about 15 years ago people thought they were impossible to breed and look at all the morphs that are out there now. Our understanding of their needs and of cycling have become better understood. Thus making it easier for beginners to breed some of their first snakes without any problem. there will always be a demand for these beautiful snakes and people will always pay top dollar for something that is beautiful.

 

[herptrader]

I don't think anybody (particularly Maxwell) is saying that they are hard to breed.

The issue in Australia is that we were coming off a very low base numbers wise for GTP's in captivity. This is starting to change and as has happened with other species - the prices will come down.

 

[herptrader]

I like Greg Maxwells book, but I can understand what Nick M is saying. The fact is they are for more experienced keepers but if you have your husbandry correct for other species you will be able to keep them healthy.
[...]

Something that Maxwell has done that most "for more experienced keepers" is share what works for them in the form of a book. The old quote:

Publish or be damned

comes to mind.

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

Dont get me wrong Herptrader, i use his book frequently as cross reference. I also like the German book that is available. It also has to be taken into consideration that Greg has access to locality specific as well as good quality captive bred stock.

 

[wokka]

I believe some of the price stability with GTP's comes from the type of people which own thm. The purchase of GTP's is normally carefully thought through rather than an impulsive burst for another snake. GTP breeders can afford and often want to hold on to their progeny wereas I observe a lot of owners of snakes move on to the next breed once they have mastered breeding their current challenge. I guess with GTP's there is no next breed, except of course Albino Olives,

 

[Vincent]

The biggest issue i had with Maxwells book is the bit about not probing GTP's until at least a year old. People have been probing baby GTP's for decades without any problems. A bloke makes a book and states it shouldnt be done, and all of a sudden every breeder only sells unsexed young. I guess i cant blame them, i'd probably do the same if i bred them, easy way to sell a few extra, or all the same sex to one buyer.

 

[NickM]

The book pays lip service to the topic of obesity then goes on to show pictures of obese animals as if they were representative of what a healthy chondro should look like.

Another major issue I have with this book is that it promotes Maxwells personal beliefs as if they were fact.

The issue of locality is a great example. Maxwell and others with his midset have done all they can to discourage the breeding of local GTPs, this is done entirely to prop up the price of their own mutt animals.

The fact is that what is now considered to be a single species is in reality several different animals, there have been numerous studies and genetic work done and all suppoirt thjis conclusion.

US keepers like Maxwell have been breeding mixed blood animals for years and in a flagrant move to discourage people from buying less expensive locality animals that are now imported they activley try to persuade people against breeding locality animals, and attempt to cast doubt on the origins of any animal that they did not produce.

The unforetunate truth is that too many people beleive everything they read , so when someone like Maxwell publishes a book filled with his own very biased opinions it is looked at as fact by many

Just visit any GTP forums, you cant even talk about locality animals without someone regurgitating some of Maxwells propaganda.

As a breeder of locality animals I think his book has done a dis-service to the hobby, iut has in large part destryed the market for locality GTPs, intentionally just to promote hybrids.

Nick

 

[MrBredli]

I own a copy of the book but have yet to read it thoroughly so I'm interested to hear more on the topic of localities. No offence intended at all Nick, but i can't completely grasp what you're trying to say. On one hand, he is breeding hybrid mutts, but on the other hand he is discouraging people from breeding locailty pure specimens because he doubts their purity, which if he is correct, would mean they would be producing hybrid mutts, which is what you say he is breeding also? So what's the difference?

I just fail to comprehend how Greg could possibly be against breeding locality pure specimens. Everyone has their doubts about particular lines of 'locality pure' animals being exactly what they are claimed to be, and so they should. Unless you took them from the wild yourself, or you can trace them back to when they were taken from the wild, then it is wise to be cautious. If in doubt, then i don't believe they should be claimed to be locailty pure, and i can only guess that is what Greg is getting at? If they're guaranteed locality pure, and it can be proven, then i find it almost impossible to believe that Greg would be against. I know he's more into the morphs, but even so, i'm sure he still has a great deal of respect for locality pure animals.