Diamond jungle mutts

[Fossilman]

Maybe i do have alot more to learn, at least im admitting it. Wow someone on this site has actually tried to give me reasons for why they think im wrong without just calling me an idiot!

Djfreshy i respect your 15years working with dogs

All of what i said about crossbred and purebred dogs was told to me by a vet with something like 35years experience

 

[djfreshy]

Believe me theres very FEW vets in this state that serious breeders respect, If you would like to find a mentor who is noted as a world leader in genetics pm me and ill be happy to pass the number.

 

[Fossilman]

Arent alot of breeders just out to make money??? Correct me if im wrong.

Heres a link to a page of a breeder who breeds labradoodles just like you do, It tells you all about the problems of purebreds. Her name is Kate, she's is a veterinarian working in rural New South Wales. She has an Honours degree in genetics as well as a veterinary degree

http://www.family-pets.com/genetics.html

Anyway....this thread has become all about dogs now so ill leave it here.

 

[Beano05]

I'm a beliver in "don't type what you woul'nt say to someones face".

 

[MrBredli]

ironic, we are talking about jungles and diamonds, 1 species. not a good argument mrb, and therefore not good logic in determining someone to be an idiot

Yeah, because there is no difference between crossing two different subspecies of snakes and crossing two different breeds of dog, right? I'm sorry (not really) for being offensive, but if you think that was bad just wait until next time someone compares hybridizing snakes to crossbreeding dogs. That's all i can stands i can't stands no more!!

 

[Chimera]

Even if it is illegal to cross-breed different species, which it may be, I don't know, it doesn't matter in this case because jungles and diamonds are the same species, just a different subspecies. I haven't really made up my mind about this but surely it would give the progeny a wider gene pool and therefore make them more resiliant to disease? Nice looking animals, anyway.

OK, this I will argue.

Your comments about genetic strength based on diversity is an overly simplistic view of a complex subject. Furthermore, it fails to take into account the small amount of time that reptiles have been bred compared with other purebred animals and the reasonably large amount of founder stock (it is greater then you think). In addition to this, designer morphs of some species have been line bred and inbred for several generations without the presentation of defects or weaknesses. To take the anti-inbreeding to it's logical conclusion one must agree that the defects need to exist in the first place within the genetic code.

I will make one very clear point on crossing Jungles with Diamonds and that is to raise the question on how you would keep the progeny? There are vast differences in the environment that these 2 subspecies has adapted to and neither would survive long in the other's territory. I would suggest that the argument about genetic weaknesses through inbreeding pale in comparison to the problems presented in defining keeping regimes for an animal with an undefined natural home range and temperature.

 

[caustichumor]

Yes well, as everyone knows mammalian dogs and reptilian pythons have followed the exact same evolutionary path and are so similar they can be compared to each other......

 

[junglepython2]

Haha i knew someone would ask. Its called "hybrid vigour", google it

Crossbred animals from any species usually have healthier genetics than purebreds. Its because purebreds are basically inbred and so they only have genetics from a very small gene pool.

Dogs for example, Its well known that a "mutt" or crossbred dog will probably be more hardy then a purebred . Purebred dogs die earlier and devolop far more tumours and cancers then mutts and are often less intelligent. Golden retrievers have bad hip problems and beagles have epilepsy, all this is a result of inbreeding the dog to keep the "purebred bloodline". Crossbreds are the basis of all farm animals because well they are basically superior to purebreds...

If you want me to i could go into detail about the genetics of purebreds and crossbreds and why crossbreds are healthier , im learning this stuff at uni so i like talking about it anyway lol

For one hybrid vigour is usually only evident in the first generation. Secondly you can also get outbreeding depression, so the notion that all hybrids are healthier is rubbish. Also pure snakes are not basically inbred at all.

Also, as others have pointed out dogs are the one species and have no relevance what so ever to this arguement and I'm not sure why people keep bringing it up.
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[Veredus]

ironic, we are talking about jungles and diamonds, 1 species. not a good argument mrb, and therefore not good logic in determining someone to be an idiot

Ah but all breeds of domesticated dog fall under the one subspecis of the grey wolf, therefore the distinction between labrador and poodle is far less than that between subspecies of carpet pythons so the argument is still completely relevant.

 

[ravensgait]

LMAO dogs were talking about dogs again.. Um for those who really care about such things we are talking about carpet pythons here all one species and can't be separated by DNA testing. they were separated into subspecies not all that long ago . So tossing out that dogs are one species and carpets are many is BS , less differences in the lower order Carpets than in the higher order canine breeds. Hell far more difference in people than you'll find in any snakes species anyone ever heard of blood types??

Chimera, as the man pointed out the offspring of even the High percentage crosses are much easier to keep than pure diamonds, they seem to for what ever reason have the constitution of the Jungle or Coastal . And yes I keep both so am speaking from experience with these critters.

I think this subject is like talking about Inbreeding Science gets tossed out the window and emotions reign. Some like em some don't but I do wonder if the over riding negativity seen here doesn't have a lot to do with your lawmakers deciding it is illegal. Sure we have people over here that don't like crosses or hybrids hey if we all liked the same stuff this would get boring real fast. . Randy

 

[Australis]

Chimera, as the man pointed out the offspring of even the High percentage crosses are much easier to keep than pure diamonds, they seem to for what ever reason have the constitution of the Jungle or Coastal . And yes I keep both so am speaking from experience with these critters.

Crossing Diamonds into other sub-species/species to make them easier to keep is the weakest justifications
ive heard, and a real cop-out.
Also funny coming from o/s keepers who are meant to be at the forefront (not my opinion) of the hobby?

So, when will we see Boelens Python Morelia boelini crossed to other Morelia species?!

 

[cockney red]

If they didn't keep them in microwave like temps, they could have living pure Diamonds. The only kind of Diamond.

This is one of the reasons that some well known breeders here in Europe started to breed diamond * jungle's. They lost many adult diamonds with tumors and also of the so called Diamond Syndrome. All the crosses that they produced are not dealing with any of these problems.

Cheers Mark

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Just thought i would post a definition of a sub-specie for the newbies

A group somewhat less distinct than species usually are, but based on characters more important than those which characterise ordinary varieties; often, a geographical variety or race. (biology) a taxonomic group that is a division of a species; usually arises as a consequence of geographical isolation within a species.The most precise classification of organism. Our own species, Homo sapiens sapiens is a prime example of a subspecies, which over time had diversified from Homo sapiens and respective common ancestors.

 

[Ramsayi]

This was posted a while ago on an OS site.I think it is valid and sums it up nicely.

In this debate of two sides, only one is having a negative
impact on the other..
While the guilty party can go on unhindered by any negative
consequence from those on purist side of the fence.

Every clutch of mongrel carpet eggs is doing its small part
to pollute captive populations, its a very selfish pursuit.

 

[Southside Morelia]

therefore the distinction between labrador and poodle is far less than that between subspecies of carpet pythons so the argument is still completely relevant.

Are you serious???.....that is the funniest post I have read yet in this thread and an absolute crock!
Wait to see how NPWS/DEC classify all the sub-species of morelia in the future...I'll leave it at that, because this thread has taken another pointless and irritating turn due to the immaturity of some that can't take at face value what the thread was originally about...it's a shame.

 

[cockney red]

Unless you have inside information that they are to be classified as Morelia Morelia,Veredus has made a valid point.

 

[junglepython2]

So tossing out that dogs are one species and carpets are many is BS , less differences in the lower order Carpets than in the higher order canine breeds. Hell far more difference in people than you'll find in any snakes species anyone ever heard of blood types??

Randy

Now that is BS, blood types are controlled by a few genes, you really think the different subspecies or carpet only differ by a few alleles? And what makes you think the one subspecies of dog differ more then the carpets?

 

[Jason]

sunrise- could you post some pictures of you diamond jags? would love to see some pictures of them!

 

[Southside Morelia]

sunrise- could you post some pictures of you diamond jags? would love to see some pictures of them!

LMAO, Me too Jas, you stirrer!

 

[nuthn2do]

Ad are we the only 1's that believe those 1st pics were photo shopped?
I thought it was pretty obvious as seen by the yellow coloration in the background.

Probably just white balance, see if they're more/less appealing colour corrected