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Sorry, I was under the impression they did have progeny from the statement " so it wasn't just progeny of Gow's animals that ended up on the market." taken from your quoted message.

Well if they did have progeny then it should be easy enough to prove so if the breeders are infact selling those animals shouldn't it?

And if they didn't have any progeny, then keepers advertising Aussies must be either A: lying or B: Poachers.

You have asked what we want as proof and I feel I have answered this question for you. So now let me ask you a question. As an advertiser of true pure Aussie GTP's, what proof or garuntee can you give that your animals are 100% legal and of Iron Range?
 
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are you a buyer? If so, I'll give all the proof that is possible to give. If you are just snooping around and trying to expose people's identity on this forum - bugger off!

I think it's time for a mediator to step in and explain Amazonian some rules.
 
I am sorry you seem to think I am somehow starting trouble.
I thought you genuinely wanted an answer to your question of "what proof do WE want"

No need for a mediator. I will step down voluntarily and leave the others to answer your questions in a manner that YOU see fit. Obviously my answer has somehow offended you, although I can't possibly see how. All the best with it.
 
You answer didn't offend me - the fact that you deliberately (I assume) exposed my name is a sign of poor manners or a nasty streak in you. You can still repair the damage by telling us all your name.

This thread (I hope) is a meaningful discussion platform from which both breeders / sellers and potential buyers can benefit. My aim is to collate and assess all the contributions and arrive to some conclusion as to what would be the standard approach to selling and buying native GTPs acceptable to most.
Lets hope we can recover from this minor stumble and keep on going. Your level-headed attitude would be appreciated, Amazonian.
 
Well I appologise.
I thought your name was public knowledge and known by the majority involved in the hobby. I only said it as I was speaking to & quoting you directly at that point and I thought it more personal on 1st name basis. I never meant it as an attack and if I thought you were trying to remain annonymous I would have gladly obliged by keeping it a secret. There was no malice or intent in my post I assure you.

My name is Sonny.
Hi all :D:):D:)
 
aussie gtp's

l lived in Cooktown for a while and fished up as far as Captain Billy's Landing [the other side of Iron Range NP] and after seeing aussie gtp's in the wild [and being searched by QP&WS with police in attendence]and more recently viewing some Meraukes l defy 99 out of 100 people to spot the difference even more so when you take a shed cycle into acount...l am an avid believer beauty is in the eye of the beholder...and for those just chiming in remember there was an amnesty in 1995.....cheers solar 17 [baden]..ps.. l think for most of us GTP'S will remain on the wish list.........
 
I thought it was the name of the game on these forums to remain anonymous.
Apologies accepted Sunny.
My second name is Smily :D in case it wasn't a public knowledge. My bodyguard's name is Faustus :evil: and I am a member of the chondro mafia :shock:

Back tomorrow.
 
It would come down to trust, but I would at least ask to hear the story of how the seller came to have pure Aussie GTP's.

And isn't the easiest way to tell the difference from Merauke and Aussie GTP's that the Meraukes get the blue in their bellies and Aussies dont. It wouldn't be 100% as I'm sure some Meraukes would have no blue in their belly.
 
Randy, your last shot is unmistakably from Iron Ramge - the fence line of King Park with the QPWS barracks in the background. Also, unmistakably Ausie python! The Bade (do you mean Badu?) can't be mistaken for Aus. native for it's yellow snout.



Well that does make a real point I guess. The photo of that animal was taken half a world away from Oz, actually near Houston Texas. All three animals are Meraukes, the first has a yellow face from rubbing. . You can't go by appearance alone !
Here's a baby Merauke looks just like a baby Iron range or a baby of most any Locality
d91319d6.jpg

So how do you know what it is? you have to trust the person who you are buying from. Hey if I trust the person I'll take their word for it but all the paper work in the world wont convince me if I don't trust the person, paperwork is easy to make up.

I mentioned this before CBB Meraukes don't seem to have the amount of white their parent may of had. Lots of speculation as to why that is but no one has a real answer as to why. I imagine that Iron Range animals being so much like Meraukes have the same problem. I've seem Meraukes from parents with full stripes that only had a few white dorsal scales. Heck Aru's have the same problems the babies don't seem to have the amount of white their parents did, so again appearances can be misleading

Hey as far as using a name in post here. I've always felt that one should own what they say by using their name... Randy
 
I suggest potential buyers speak to previous past buyers of "natives' from the same supplier and compare notes, then see if the trust is warranted. Ask for documentation, written garantee, receipt payment by cheque etc so you maitain a paper trail. If the buyer is accountable they are more likely to tell the truth.If the refuse its likely they are trying to hide something.
 
I thought it was the name of the game on these forums to remain anonymous.
Apologies accepted Sunny.
My second name is Smily :D in case it wasn't a public knowledge. My bodyguard's name is Faustus :evil: and I am a member of the chondro mafia :shock:

Back tomorrow.

You have already put your name up in your original post when you advertised these animals for sale, how come the sudden change of heart?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/for-sale-snakes/green-pythons-78604
Hardly think its fair to have a go at someone for using your first name when you've put it oout there for all to see?
Regards,
Chris Wienholt (just to play the game fair!)
 
I'd get concerned about buying from those who want to remain anonymous. Get rid of McDonalds carpark deals and brown paper bags.To me the aim of this forum is decemination of information and ideas. Preferably truthfully.
 
A copy of my original post:

Craftman,
I have quoted a message from you earlier, I hope you don't mind.

craftman said:
Interesting to read other people's opinions. By the way, BIGGUY, I managed to obtain copies of 5 permits issued by the QPWS to different individuals (I was one of them) in the mid 80s to collect GTPs at Iron Range, so it wasn't just progeny of Gow's animals that ended up on the market.

Why would anyone want to buy GTPs straight from the egg? I can sell you established, feeding, 5 months-old juveniles with 100% guarantee to be native.

But now you are saying

Thanks for your sensible opinion Neil.
It seems to be the buyer's first question - how do I know, what proof is there? In my opinion, they are asking for the impossible. Even DNA and PIT tags can be swindled, so at the end of the day - it's a question of trust, integrity and reputation on the breeder's part.

Splitmore, you are going around in circles. Read Neil's and my messages and hopefuly, you will also conclude that you would be asking for the impossible. How can anyone provide with a hard core proof, short of admitting that he/she taken the animals from the wild? And is he/she was stupid enough to say that, would you believe him/her or would you demand a hard core proof of him/her poaching? Perhaps you could conclude the transaction with the breeder in a jail.

If 5 permits were attained for the legal collection of GTP's, and accordingly there was progeny provided to the market other than Gows due to this, why would these members face a jail term for disclosing proof of locality? It was all above board wasn't it? Surely these collectors would have the documentation & this I feel would be enough to fulfill any prospective buyers genuine concerns.

NOTE:
This is not an attack, nor is it in anyway a breach of APS rules to ask a genuine question. I have removed the persons name. So please keep this here this time. Thank-you
 
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Good point wokka, the car park and brown paper bags were introduced after numerous GTPs were stolen in Adelaide (at gun point), Townsville, Darwin. I agree, we could do with out it.

Amazonian, if you post was important, send it to me as a PM.

As for the rest of you - why to get personal here?
 
It seems to me, breeders get known for their certain lines,
After a while it gets accepted that this breeder has 'these' animals - whatever they may be.
That breeder is already acknowledged and has nothing to gain from being decietful.
One who claims he has something, then ducks and weaves and doesnt fulfil people's expectations of how he got them, starts looking more and more untrustworthy.
Lay it on the table - not just for 'customers' - because potential customers are everywhere, establish your lines as true now - the longer you delay the more your credibility gets questioned. imo
 
Guys, I am out of here. It seems that Amazonian is not least interested in addressing my original post, instead is constantly digging into me, what I said and what I didn't. This post is not about me - my original questions were formulated so both breeders and potential buyers could put forward their opinions and hopefully, both parties benefit from the discussions.
Unfortunately, some chosen to go into personal agruments .....

cheers, logging out
 
Seeing as you are in the genuine Aussie GTP game how do you guarantee that what you produce is ridgey didge seeing as you advertise them as such?
 
Craftsman I am not taking a dig at you.
I am just saying that if these 5 permits were valid then there will be documentation & this should be enough proof IMO. I am answering your original question as you wanted. Why do you see it as an attack?

Of course I am a little confused by your posts as they seem contradictory, and this is why I quoted them. But I am not trying to personally attack you. I have retracted your 1st name as you wished. I answered your question by stating that the documentation from those 5 collectors should be enough proof IMO. Isn't this an answer to the question you were asking? I have addressed your question as you have asked, yet you feel as if I am attacking you. Trust me I am not. I only quoted you because your comments are confusing & how are we to give an accurate and personal answer to your question when the account of facts are changing? How can we answer the question if we are told that there is progeny available then told maybe there isn't etc.

And to answer you again so we are not confused, disclosure of the collection permit, DNA profiling & Pedigree garuntee is IMHO enough proof for me. If this is not acceptable than let me know and I will change my answer to "The sellers word & faith is enough proof"
 
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