Carbon Trading $$$$$$$$$

[bundy_zigg]

Looks like we are all going to have to move up there!

thats a plan, hahaha

 

[junglemad]

i am still going to rev my falcon to the redline

 

[callith]

except that we are a higher per capita polluter than china....

so china may be worse than us together, but you and i are worse than any individual chinese or indian.


but to play devils advocate... and climater change is a hoax.
IF we change things anyway, we wont have to deal with eventually running out of a fuel... our cities will be cleaner. with across the board no job losses... we did however waste alot of money

if we don't, then we save money, but we aren't any better off

if however.... climate change ISN'T a hoax... is the end of human life in our childrens life time really an acceptable gamble?


seriously, to me its like playing russain roulette with someone you don't know.
i hand you a gun, don't tell you how many bullets there are....

yeah true, but we produce about 1% or less of the worlds carbon etc whereas china and the US produce something like 40% or more, so untill they do something what Australia does is going to pretty much be for nothing, and i still want real proof that global warming exists not just people saying that 100 years ago blah blah blah, 100 years is all of 1/45000000th of the age of the earth which had gone through phases like this before and recovered.

 

[The Devil]

Yes, renewable energy, wind or solar is the way to go.
We could be like a state in USA that has committed 1.5 billion $ to do a offshore wind power set up that will power 50,000 homes. That number equates to about say 200,000 people.

Transfer those figures to say Sydney, population around 4 million and you have a cost of about $30 billion just for Sydney.
More interesting is looking at all of Australia, population around 23 million, cost of wind power about $172 billion.

I remember seeing the TOTAL Federal Gov budget figure a couple of years ago, it was $200 billion.

 

[Forensick]

so we only produce 1% but the highest per capita... and we refuse to do anything till the larger total producers, who are lower individually, reduce theres?

couldn't they sit there equally and say "well they produce more per person than us, and we are still developing! why should we reduce our levels till they reduce theirs to below ours per person!"

and then we all sit around waiting to die.

who are we to demand that the us and china reduce their emissions when we won't do it?
can you spell hypocrite?

 

[callith]

so we only produce 1% but the highest per capita... and we refuse to do anything till the larger total producers, who are lower individually, reduce theres?

couldn't they sit there equally and say "well they produce more per person than us, and we are still developing! why should we reduce our levels till they reduce theirs to below ours per person!"

and then we all sit around waiting to die.

who are we to demand that the us and china reduce their emissions when we won't do it?
can you spell hypocrite?

we are actually far from the highest producers per capita, qatar use more than 4 times the amount of carbon per capita then australians and we are thirteenth on list of carbon prosucers per capita behind some countries that you probably would have thought would have been down near the bottom of the list as for greenhouse gas emisions, we are 9th, can you spell HYPOCRITE because i cant, but i can do the research to back up my statements!!!!

 

[moosenoose]

Shame really.. but we all seem to love our carbon guzzling lifestyle....

I sure as hell do! Besides letting my cat out every night to eat some native delicacies, I've hotted up my lawn-mower and run a little more oil in it than I'm meant to. I love all the smoke and it looks like it's doing a constant burn-out! It's a beautiful sight to behold

 

[wokka]

I live in Nth QLD so my heating is free, thats my bit done

just turn off your light and computer and the efforts complete.

 

[slim6y]

callith... forensick and others... Is it not time to 'unite' as one in the world. Afterall we're all trapped in here and none of us are getting out alive. So wouldn't it be more beneficial to us as a race to pull together and ALL reduce our carbon emissions regardless if we're number 13 or number 1! Or for that matter number 256 - if we all do our bit, we all contribute, we all get in behind these things - then... and only then will we know for sure if global warming is a cycle or a human induced thing.

The thing we need to start us off - is the government... and hey.. what about cheap solar water heating to cut carbon emissions by a few percent to start with.

 

[slim6y]

And to add

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24317781-30417,00.html

"The first power plant in the world that will take the toxic emissions from coal and bury them deep in the ground opens today, carrying with it the hopes of scientists and environmentalists around the world."

 

[Fester]

And to add

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24317781-30417,00.html

"The first power plant in the world that will take the toxic emissions from coal and bury them deep in the ground opens today, carrying with it the hopes of scientists and environmentalists around the world."

Clean coal technology, especially in this country with it's vast coal reserves, is a step in the right direction. There is still some opposition from some sectors that we are not getting rid of the emissions, just hiding them. If this goverment increased rebates for solar water and electricity instead of winding them back I am sure a lot more people would take up the offer.
I was looking at a 1kW system here as there was an Adelaide Solar City initiative that would cost $2,295 for the unit but the last budget squashed that by placing a means test on the offer.

 

[slim6y]

Yes, Fester, that's my exact point... who's in the business for carbon emission reductions?

Someone (as suggested) is making money instead of giving us an easy choice.

Even something as simple as energy saving bulbs are 10 - 15 times more expensive than our incandescent inefficient bulbs (which are being phased out anyway).

So the cleaner greener option (apparently - only in the turning on and off, not necessarily in the production) is far more expensive.

If solar power water heaters only costed $25 everyone would have them!!!

But as they cost over $2000 it's an unlikely prophecy to suggest everyone will have one and thus lowering emissions by a fair whack!

So - big pockets bad environment.

 

[saratoga]

Is global warming happening?......I believe it is.

Even if it can't be shown it only makes sense to try and cut down on our consumption.

The planet is a closed system...nothing in ....nothing out. If you keep stripping forests and pumping pollutants into the environment you are changing the equilibrium, it may take a long time to be measurable but you can gaurantee it is changing. Someone once likened the environment to an aircraft. An aircraft is held together by thousands of rivets. One of two missing rivets wont be noticed, perhaps a hundred wont make a difference either but there comes a critical point where the loss of only one more rivet will cause failure of the aircraft. I believe we are now at or past that criticial point. Changes in a big system take time...a long time...but with that time comes momentum.... the environment has not been addressed for so long I think that momentum is now unstoppable even with drastic changes.

However by far the biggest problem facing us today is the population explosion. In the course of just a few generations the worlds population has almost tripled. Many of the most populous countries such as India and China are now aspiring to western lifestyles and the associated over consumption, and can you blame them? They then can share the "luxury" of using a flush toilet and wasting 10 litres of good drinking water every time they use it, have all the latest energy draining appliances, drive a car (where once they walked or cycled) and get obese on junk food.

Australia is only a very small player in the whole scheme of things but that doesnt mean we should sit back and wait for the big boys to act. To do nothing is criminal....and what a horrible legacy for your kids.

 

[The Devil]

Our carbon trading tax will be a bit like our drive for free trade. Australia being no more than a pimple on the world's bum is leading the charge, especially in the Asian region.

When questioned about China, India ect Mr Rudd said that we have to allow developing countries to develop before we can hope they fall in line with us.
Interesting statement that, article in a respected business mag said that the state banking and investment arm of the Chinese gov has something like $12 trillion to invest.
So with that sort of money laying around, are they a developing country????


Also another article stated that China was going to commission 100 new coal fired power stations in the next 2 years.
They have also committed to 100 nuclear power stations to be built over the next 10 years, hey, that's some developing country.

 

[Dipcdame]

SOOOOO........ the general feeling here is that we all WANT a safe environment, no emissions, etc, but no-one is prepared to pay for the clean up of the mess that we personally create???? We are all for the big businesses paying for their whack..............and so should we.

 

[bundy_zigg]

so we only produce 1% but the highest per capita... and we refuse to do anything till the larger total producers, who are lower individually, reduce theres?

couldn't they sit there equally and say "well they produce more per person than us, and we are still developing! why should we reduce our levels till they reduce theirs to below ours per person!"

and then we all sit around waiting to die.

who are we to demand that the us and china reduce their emissions when we won't do it?
can you spell hypocrite?

we are not refusing to do things, and what prey tell are you doing? We are individuals you, should write to to the prime minister if you want some one who can actually make big changes. and we are higher per capita because there are billions of them do the maths!

 

[bundy_zigg]

just turn off your light and computer and the efforts complete.

I have sloar power dude ahahahaha

 

[Forensick]

we are not refusing to do things, and what prey tell are you doing? We are individuals you, should write to to the prime minister if you want some one who can actually make big changes. and we are higher per capita because there are billions of them do the maths!

i can do the math...
but can you? you, personally, produce more CO2 tha one chinese person... so forget countries buisness etc... YOU, and hence i, polute more than them.
so don't whinge about them first.... thier country as whole may produce more than ours, but we cant change that... hell we can barely even change our own countries policy.
but you can change what YOU do, and based on the same logic that china (the geopolitical entity) should curb emmissions before australia, australians (as individuals) should curb emissions before the chinese

and as for me?
i am carbon neutral... hell... for the most part it saves me money (being inner city helps, i understand that is not a reality for alot of people however)

 

[Fester]

and as for me?
i am carbon neutral... hell... for the most part it saves me money (being inner city helps, i understand that is not a reality for alot of people however)

I am curious how you are carbon neutral? What have you done to offset your energy use? I mean, as per my previous comment, we are in a hobby, especially if you live in the colder parts of Australia, that does consume a relatively large amount of energy with heating and lighting. My room is also air-conditioned. If we are talking about energy wastage should we really have any energy intensive hobbies? I also have tropical fish, nice to look at, but needs winter heating, lighting, filter etc. I would love to go solar, but how many can afford the many thousands of dollars to go down that path? You can still buy a lot of energy for the cost of a solar unit. I know someone who spent nearly $30,000 on solar power just to feel "warm & fuzzy".

 

[Forensick]

i use the "green energy" options (it ****** me off tho that ~I~ don't use it, i just pay for it to go into the grid)
i very rarely drive, and when i do it is on a 250cc bike.
energy saving bulbs blah blah

and i offset what i can't change....


and i would love to buy solar for warm and fuzzys... but you are right it is an absolute disgrace that they don't pay for themselves for like 20 years.
they really should be cheap enough to pay for themselves within 1-5






-i don't say this to brag or condemn those that don't/can't but merely to point out that waiting for someone else to do it first is BS
on a global scale, including all people and countries, i am a blip on the co2 scale....
but i make the changes because i can...
and i may be a blip.... but if every single individual in the western world does this, we have the makings of significant change... not to mention CLEARLY showing the gov't we want change, and showing industry the costs are less than reward (as is already being shown in europe.. because of companies making changes are seeing increases in customer levels)

but if i was to do nothing because someone else should first.....
then everyone else has the same right.....
then nothing will ever change